My DAC adventures begin!

nothing much to say. The 581 replaces the 861. The 781 replaces the 861SE and the 781i has a built in digital preamp. You can apparently upgrade a 581 all the way up to a 781i. Oh and they play SACD too - by downsampling like the Esoteric models of last year. The cases are identical to the earlier models so no exciting visuals then!

Greg, no I have not heard the SA11 at home so cannot really comment. It is on the list, as I do like DSD done properly, but as yet I have not had the time to compare. I would be very surprised if it were up to the CD7 on red book though.

 

NOS dac is fantastic value for money but is no where close to the detailed controlled presentation of the DAC64. Some might say it's too forward for their liking. I have to agree (when comparing to the SA11S1) but if you are one who enjoys that clear 'pictured' soundstage, the 64 is a safe bet & extremely good when listening at low volume at night.

The SA11S1 is simply breathtaking. Being a believer of the advancement of MC music, the SA11S1 made me think twice and showed me how well it could do with a 2CH SACD presentation. The imagery presentation of the soundstage is amazing. As a CD player, you can't fault it and honestly, if not for my extensive usage of mp3 & m4a music files (which stream via the 64), I will find it hard to justify the expense on the 64.

 

Anyway, Tenson - how are you finding the DAC64? Are you using it on the dig out of the Behringer?

 

I will report on it tomorrow when I get the chance. I have added the Blu transport to the system as well today.

Maybe this is a question for another thread, but what other upsampling transports are there? Preferably not much over £1k second hand.

 

I'd be keen for a direct comparison considering it's from the same stable and arguably looking to deliver the same level of "buy me"ness

 

I can't think of any - apart form the impending Lyngdorf CD player/transport which should come in around £1500 when its available.

If you are looking for something to upsample to 96Khz before going into the Behringer then there are standalone upsamplers.
The Behringer Ultramatch SRC2496 is only about £85 and massive spec.

I tried a Monarchy DIP 48/96, but found it was adding gain to the digital signal so a lot of recordings were clipping badly.... but when it wasn't clipping I found it wasn't really any different from using the analogue inputs and onboard A-D conversion on the Behringer.

 

I heard the dac64 against the dax decade a while back, with dunkyboy (at local dealer on leith walk) and we both thought the dac64 was decidedly forward in comparison - a matter of taste really.

 

Hi,

Well, I would say a quiet PC fitted with a high quality Digital Output Card or external USB/Firewire Device, software would be Foobar and the Secret Rabbit Code (SRC - get da joke) resampler.... Tried it, cannot hear benefits with my current sound provision BTW....

Ciao T

 

Okay well a while back Ya-Boo bought his TACT RCS2.2x over to my place and I plugged it into my system as a DAC and pre-amp. The improvements over using the DAC in the Behringer DEQ2496 and the Ming Da MC-7R pre-amp were quite obvious.

This lead me to think it was time to upgrade my DAC. The Ming Da pre-amp, I thought, was pretty good as it was but was bettered by the TACT so if I could get a DAC pre-amp then that would be great.

The Stello DAC/pre-amp seemed good and was in my price range but I wanted to hold out for something better like a second hand Wadia or something.

Now I have always liked Thorstens Music First passive pre-amp so when I saw a Django come on to eBay for a good price I bought it. This freed my options up to get any DAC I liked.

The Django bought nearly all the benefits that using the TACT in my system did so I was quite keen to try a better DAC as well to see just how good it could get! The DAC, I thought, was probably more of a bottleneck than the pre-amp.

I went to Rochester Hi-Fi and borrowed the Chord DAC64. Took it home and plugged it in.

I gave it a day of music before making any judgements because it was pretty cold when I got it. However, it was a month run in already.

I wired it up by taking the AES/EBU signal from my transport into the Behringer to do room correction and then on out as AES/EBU into the DAC64.

After listening to it for quite a while and a/b’ing it with the Behringer DEQ2496 main outs…. There was not a lot of difference!

It took a lot of listening to come to the conclusion that the DAC64 did have the upper hand. It had slightly better imaging and slightly better bass control and dynamics. It did also have a slightly brighter sound though and I can see what people mean about the high end having a ‘metallic sheen’. The difference really was VERY small.

This couldn’t be right I thought! How can a £200 Behringer box of gadgets measure up to a £2,000 separate DAC?!

I then tried it plugged directly into the transport in case going through the DEQ2496, even just as digital, was limiting it. … Nope! I thought it sounded a tiny bit better than the DEQ2496 like this but then the DEQ2496 was being fed from an optical calbe and the DAC64 from a AES/EBU so it should have the upper hand.

Thinking about it for a while I decided that maybe my low-end transport was limiting it. I suppose the improvement the TACT RCS bought to my system must have been from swapping out the pre-amp, not the DAC as I had thought.

Back to Rochester Hi-Fi I went to borrow the Chord Blu transport as well! I told John that the DAC64 had not made an improvement on the DEQ2496 and he was quite happy to lend the transport as well He was surprised though I think.

Doubtful at this point that the transport would make any difference either (after all, its only 1s and 0s), I plugged it in. Again it had the usual few hours to warm up before I dared to listen critically.

‘Hmm.. it does sound a bit better I think ’

I got down to some serious listening last night and yes… I can say for sure that this transport made an improvement to my system. BUT did it take the DAC64 to a higher level over the £200 DEQ2496?


What do you think??


Nope!

The Chord Blu transport improved the sound considerably, but it improved both the DAC64 and the DEQ2496 equally!! In fact it narrowed the gap between them.

All music had a lot more detail and refinement and just seemed to flow more like ‘real’ music. The soundstage also seemed wider. More dynamics too. Lovely-jovely

Listening to jazz or vocal music, the DEQ2496 actually had the edge over the DAC64. Simply because the unnatural treble made the vocals and acoustic instruments sound unnatural. The DEQ2496 sounded more ‘organic’. It is almost like the DAC64 has some harmonic excitement in the treble as well as something like a .25dB boost from about 10KHz up.

On classical the DAC64 did have the advantage though. The treble helped to give better definition to the soundstage and the slightly better dynamics helped as well.

Now one of the reasons I thought the DEQ2496 might be able to keep up with the DAC64 with this new transport is because it upsamples to 88.2KHz, thus letting the DEQ2496 work in a higher sample rate. This is why I asked about transports with upsampling.

On the back of the Chord Blu transport there is a little switch as it happens. This switch changes between 44.1KHz and 88.2KHz so I switched it in to 44.1KHz to se if ti was sounding better because of higher sample rates or because it was simply a better transport. Weeeelll…. I think 88.2KHz has a slightly more open and detailed soundstage and treble… but it is really very hard to tell. It may just be my imagination. So yeah, the improvement was just because it was as better transport, not because of the up-sampling.

Throughout all of these different settings and tests the DEQ2496 kept a steady pace with the DAC64. Also throughout all of this the DAC64 had slightly better imaging and dynamics but was brighter and had a slightly unnatural ‘excited’ sounding treble. But the DEQ2496 was more natural and somehow easier to listen to and maybe more enjoyable. Oh, and one tenth the cost!

I believe with some mods to the DEQ2496 it could actually surpass the DAC64.

I am now on the lookout for a transport I can actually afford (£4k is too much!) and sounds about as good as the Blu.

Now… I know a lot of you peeps here will say I am talking rubbish or can’t hear properly. I was very surprised as well and completely expected the DAC64 to beat the DEQ2496 in to the ground. But it didn’t. I am happy to show this to anyone who wants to drag a DAC64 down to my place or can come to hear it in the next week before I take it back to the shop. I would actually like someone to confirm what I am hearing!

Also, before anyone suggests that my system jst isn’t revealing enough t show the difference… well that’s rubbish. My system is VERY, VERY revealing. To me, most of what Hi-Fi is about is to hear the most detail possible on the disc. In a pleasant sounding way of course. I won’t brag too much about my system, anyone who doubts it or wants to hear it is more than welcome to turn up and do so.

I like the look of the 47Labs 4716 transport, what do you think of this? I want DETAIL coming out ma ears and good dynamics and imaging. Can it be had for £1k? Even secondhand?

 

I am not that surprised at you results tbh. As I sais earlier, rather than mess around with transports and dacs, I'd try a few really good one box players. I have come to the conclusion that there are too many variables with transport/dac combinations and it is quite hard to get optimum results.

 

I need a transport/DAC system to accommodate the DEQ2496 room correction.

Oh yeah.... the DAC64 had a £250 AES/EBU cable as well. An Acoustic Zen.

I will post this in the review section in a minute.

By the way, I'm not saying either of them sounded bad... rather, both of them sounded REALLY good! Especially with the Chord Blu transport.

 

When i first listened to the Dac64 i was very impressed, but after a few hours the dac64 started to iritate.

 

Well.. it just hardly sounded any different. It was more irritating though.

 

Simon,
there is a Stello CDT200 on hifi for sale @ £475
he seems keen to sell, am told its a very good transport but I,ve not heard one myself

 

Six of us compared the 64 with a benchmark dac1 and no one could hear any difference. Bought the dac1 new for £750, over the £2000 chord.

Bought a teac vrds25 tranny used for £500 too. It's built like a panzer!

Can't see any better made or more detailed front ends about, without adding another zero on the end.

 

My system is described in full on the 'my system' thread.

When I joined I mentioned that I was undecided between my Sugden SDA and SDT Transport and Dac modified with a never connected Trichord Clock 4 and some £250 of mods to the DAC undertaken by CPT acoustics and a Chord DAC 64 fed by a THETA DIGITAL BASIC II transport.

My Sugden had a Kimber Select KS2020 between transport and DAC whilst the Chord and THETA had to make do with a Kimber AGDL Balanced Cable.

From the outset the DAC 64 has impressed. I have borrowed many an expensive CD player (Art Audio, Musical Fidelity, Copland) but every one has lost out to the Sugden combo. Not this time.

I feel that the difference is the DAC. I think that I'm right in stating that the THEAT and the Sugden Transports both use a Phillips CDM9 transport mechanism and whilst the electronics and the build (the THETA is a TANK) are different I still feel that it is the DAC that is putting a huge grin on my face.

I have listened to both combos now for 6 weeks and I have deided that the Sugdens will be hitting e-bay soon. Despite what I have read in this thread I, for one, fel that the Chord has brought me closer to my Orbe / SME V / Lyra Argo than any other CD player that I can afford.

Now for my speakers. Could I improve the Sonus Faber Elcta Amator II's?

 

Maybe you should try the DEQ2496 HR100MCS? It really was VEERY close to the sound of the DAC64. The main difference is that the DAC64 is faster. But the DEQ2496 being slightly slower, does make it a bit nicer to listen to on a lot of music. It is also of note, that the DEQ2496 has a buffer like the DAC64 too 

Where are you based? I would love to put the DEQ2496 up against the DAC64 with someone else there to confirm (or not) what I hear and in a different system.