My ears are bleeding

Still good to see arrogance comes as standard with you Paul

 

It was a specfic Oasis track, viz 'Cum on Feel the Noize' a cover of the old Slade song which I have on a CD 'single'.

Obviously you have to play it loud for it to be loud. Normally when you look at a SPM (the RS ones anyway) the level moves a lot, the needle flicks about, you have to make a guess based on the peaks and the style of the music. With this track it stayed between 98 and 101dBA for the entire experience.

Paul

 

Reg,

That may well be the case. I'll say it again, they are excellent speakers, but I am not sure they are for me. However, I am always open to being convinced otherwise. Perhaps Paul will be able to sway me at Julians.

Oh and dont pay too much attention to the pipe and slippers stuff, I was just trying to get a rise out of Paul.

 

Thanks for explaining, Neil. I don't think that demming the 989s at JJs helped much either. The gear he carries tends to major on presentation at the expense of verve.

I also believe that the bass produced by Quad ESLs is so different to what many listeners are accustomed to from their dynamic setups that the bass can seem lacking in comparison. However, extended listening would suggest that the ESLs are much closer to the truth than any cone'n'dome could ever be. Acoustic material and electronica highlights this more acutely than most other genres of music; which is why, in answer to Wolfgang's original question, ESLs are the answer to most Classical music lovers' prayers.

atb

reg

 

I'd definitely agree with Reg on the reproduction of "accoustic" bass instruments through the ESLs, I've very rarely (if ever) heard better on comparatively priced (or more expensive) cone/dynamic speakers.

The lack of added colouration from cone distortion I can certainly see being an issue for some, perhaps removing the perceived "grind" and "growl" factor which enhances certain genres of music. I've nothing against colouration myself atall, it certainly has its place... I've often wanted to get a pair of old Tannoy DC GRF or similar horn loaders for that PA experience at home effect.

 

I agree with most of what you said, but not the above quote.
The manger bending wave transducer is the worlds fastest driver. period.
The Manger driver has a rise time of13 micro seconds.

I definitely agree with the comment "the distortion from the driver"
I think the guys on here that call the quads pipe and slippers are probably so used to their speaker's transient noise and false but pleasing overshoot characteristics.

Transient noise in cone drivers is responsible for the speaker's footprint, which it superimposes on every signal; this is why loudspeakers sound different because each has a unique footprint. The footprint draws attention to the speakers themselves and their dimensions. The listener is then forced to stay close to the sweetspot.
Transient noise causes listening fatigue, and multiple pulses in the transient noise also cause the hearing mechanism to overestimate the level of sound, so the sensitivity of hearing then goes down. The listener then increases the volume in an attempt to compensate. Ever wondered why some recording engineers mix at such ear splitting levels; it is because their loudspeakers are replacing musical information with transient noise. Then the engineers call for evermore-powerful speakers, which unfortunately will be even less accurate.

For more information on psychoacoustics you may visit my website www.manger-audio.co.uk

Regards
ergman

 

Who cares, I am in it to enjoy music played on my system, not to have the most accurate hifi system on the planet!

 

For the sake of completeness, do you have the rise times for the worlds best horn speakers.... avanteguarde, living voice, etc.

If so, Im sure people would be interested.

If you do not, how can you make your claim?


Chris

 

I've heard a pair of Zero Boxes (7's?), with quality kit DCS/Spectral/mit, on my larger speaker quest last year, unimpressed with the sound (Bland, uninvolving, clean & accurate), build was good though, TBH the Overkills we more dynamic and I believe they us the same driver arrays too ?, now if the could marry the upper frequenices of the Neat ultimates with the bass extension & control of the meadlarks, that woud be a superb speaker

 

Actually - it's ALL the way through from the first drum machine hits - it's just more powerful during the brief break towards the end. As Henryt says, it's probably "mid bass" by his definition, but since I don't have a system with as wide a frequency response as his, it's deep to me! Either way it can vibrate the room. I stuck it on last night on the Naim CD5 and was surprised at how much bass there actually WAS on it, since the '5's bass response is, err, very tight and un-boomy, so on the face of it, bass light.

In actual fact, based on the tracks I was playing last night, I'd say that some of the people who've said Elas aren't that far removed from panels are probably right; based on what I remember of the 989 dem me and Henryt did, the bass quality on my Ela boxes is pretty good, though it's not "jump out onto the floor in a boomy overwarm bloated" style. Certainly deep bass is limited but it's still there.

Those 989 panels (even in the un-ideal conditions I heard them in) were lush - they can do rock just as well as any cone speaker I've heard. It's whether you like "thump in the gut" bass or "realistic" bass - like good controlled stuff, it's not bass light, but bass right!

Oh yeah - stuck on "Don't look back in anger" and "She's electric" on my hifi for the first time in, what, 5 years, last night to see what the fuss was about. They are VERY midrangey, but didn't sound bad at all - certainly a LOT better than I was expecting. It's hard to judge sound quality of "Be here now" without hearing all that coke running through all the tracks, so it had to be "(What's the story) Morning glory?" instead. If I'd stuck on "Definitely maybe" I'd have been stuck to the stereo for the duration - why are all their other albums so patchy and poo compared to the first???

 

Very interesting technology ergman, but I was referring to the speed of the speaker, not the driver. Sadly, the Manger is not full range. FWIW, the quoted rise time of the Apogee Scintilla was 5 micro seconds for the midrange unit and 50 for the woofer, so the Manger is outgunned there.

I can't find a rise time statistic for the Quads. I was basing my 'Quads - The Most Dynamic in The World' claim on the fact that they're the only speakers which can accurately reproduce a square wave. I'd be keen to know if there are any others.

reg

 

Well I reckon it stops and starts a couple of times, and not really a 'rumble' more of a 'warble' modulated with a rhythm.

Are the words 'I'm bored' at 1.35 and 3.32ish?

Paul

 

Pondering this it struck me that I've no idea what 'rise time' means in this context.

After all a 20kHz signal goes from 0-max in 12.5uS so any speaker that can play a 20kHz signal might be described as having a 12.5uS rise time.

Paul

 

Paul, got your figs out again good stuff, Have to say, dynamics wasn't the first that came to mind while listening to them, so you may well be onto some thing

 

My mates got the Ela Mk 1's and they are decent speakers for what he paid (recommended to him by yours truly ), they are quite lightweight but nevertheless they are engaging, fast and enjoyable, a nice speaker.

 

Surely to accurately reproduce a square wave, would require an infinite frequency response, not something that many speakers boast ..... not least because they all have some mass to accelerate, and even if they didn't they would only manage it in a vacuum....hardly useful for a speaker surely?

Cheers

 

Hmm bland and uninvolving is definitely not the Manger, but I do have to say that partnered with the wrong amplification this is exactly what you will get I have tried so many power amps with manger units and some will make the speaker sound so mundane.
But the bigger spectral with its large bandwidth and huge current should be a good match. Infact I have a friend in Belgium who has used the DMA360 with the 103's and his own built version of the 103's and he is convinced that this is the best system he has ever listened to regardless of cost.
(See http://users.skynet.be/accupulse/) for his version of the 103's. The DMA100 and 150 do not deliver enough voltage to consider them as worthy candidates to drive the Manger.

But for me there is only one Amplifier that outclasses all others from £0 to 20K and that is the dark and brooding ASR emitter 2, I am almost convinced that this thing is a living organism, every time I walk past this amp in my room I look at her and think that bitch is alive and she's watching me, coaxing me to feed her more so she can take me on that journey into black black depths of space, so so much space between instruments, a place I had always imagined in my minds eye but had never been to before. Finally my 15 year journey is over.
Sorry I get carried away
Kind Regards
ergman

 

I've only heard Oasis sound good on the radio!!!! Played on a decent setup its really harsh! Does this mean Ive got to go and buy some Electrostatics just to listen to one band?!?!?! Thats reason enough I think.