TonyL
Club Krautrock Plinque
I'm also a VPI owner, but that's not how I see things
Me too. My Spacedeck sounds way better than the VPI, but the VPI gets the records far cleaner.
Tony.
My Rega P5 dem
- Thread starter michaelab
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Me too. My Spacedeck sounds way better than the VPI, but the VPI gets the records far cleaner.
Tony.
Dexter said:Just so's we knows about what which we're speaking here, I don't consider the phrase "competition" to mean quite the SOTA slam-dunk Merlin seems to interpret in the VPI's favor. And while I could happily look at a Spacedeck on my shelf, I don't believe I could say the same about the Scout over the next 10-20 year's time.
Dex
Dex,
My point is clearly wasted. It's that the typical British buyer overlooks brands it is naivly unfamiliar with time and time again. This disappoints me. As for looks, well I would say the Vpi is one of the cleanest looking decks out there, and IMO has more engineering credibility than the Rega design (unsuspended with seperate motor housing).
The arm is also a work of art, and I would expect it to see of a Rega comfortably if mounted on a third party deck.
Still, it's made in America so must be crap and all those US tt owners must be deaf
If there was ever an example of the blinkered British approach to hifi, then surely the turntable is it.Q. What TT should I buy
A. Rega, Michell, NA or Linn :SLEEP:
Spoilt Fer Choice
Hi Merlin,
No, your point isn't wasted, it's just a wee-bit misleading:
Nowhere does Mr. Dudley suggest or imply that the P7 would "struggle" against the Scout or the Spacedeck, for that matter.
And, although I'm not terribly keen to admit to it these days, I'm as American as you are.
Keep in mind, however, that the VPIs might be more difficult to come by and probably lots more expensive in the UK and Europe than they are in the States. That doesn't necessarily make folks over here blinkered or naive, just realistic.
Furthermore, the vinyl scene over here tenaciously thrived despite the advent of the CD, with turntable design and innovation continuing apace, while it essentially ground to a halt in the States until quite recently. So the selection of quality new and 2nd-hand turntables here is quite staggering in comparison to the U.S. market, where VPI and perhaps Well Tempered kinda stand alone.
So to your list of yawny TT possibilities that we unfortunate third-worlders might have to settle for in the class we're discussing might I add Roksan, Pink Triangle, Systemdek, Audio Note, vintage Garrard, Kuzma, Ariston, vintage Thorens, Bluenote, DPS, and Manticore, just for starters. :SLEEP:
What other quality U.S.-made TTs can you enlighten us with?
Best, Dex
Hi Merlin,
No, your point isn't wasted, it's just a wee-bit misleading:
merlin said:
Nowhere does Mr. Dudley suggest or imply that the P7 would "struggle" against the Scout or the Spacedeck, for that matter.
And, although I'm not terribly keen to admit to it these days, I'm as American as you are.
Keep in mind, however, that the VPIs might be more difficult to come by and probably lots more expensive in the UK and Europe than they are in the States. That doesn't necessarily make folks over here blinkered or naive, just realistic.Furthermore, the vinyl scene over here tenaciously thrived despite the advent of the CD, with turntable design and innovation continuing apace, while it essentially ground to a halt in the States until quite recently. So the selection of quality new and 2nd-hand turntables here is quite staggering in comparison to the U.S. market, where VPI and perhaps Well Tempered kinda stand alone.
So to your list of yawny TT possibilities that we unfortunate third-worlders might have to settle for in the class we're discussing might I add Roksan, Pink Triangle, Systemdek, Audio Note, vintage Garrard, Kuzma, Ariston, vintage Thorens, Bluenote, DPS, and Manticore, just for starters. :SLEEP:
What other quality U.S.-made TTs can you enlighten us with?
Best, Dex
bottleneck
talks a load of rubbish
The VPI looks great and is well made. Sounds great too. The arm you get with it could be sold for circa 600 quid IMHO, and would be good value. I believe the Scout is 1200 with the arm, which is just fantastic. The way you can upgrade the VPI with a better power supply makes it fantastic too IMO.
For 1200, a NA deck wouldnt come with an arm anything like as good as the VPI arm. It would almost certainly be a Rega RB300. If you put a good unipivot on like a Morch you'd be nearer 2,000 for a spacedeck.
Michell decks would come with the plain cooking rega too for that money, probably a gyro SE.
A kuzma Stabi/Stogi S comes with a great unipivot for around 1600 pounds. Again, thats 400 more than a scout though. Great deck IMO
SO! for 1200, I cant think of a better new deck than a scout - especially taking into account the arm.
The P75 phonostage and matching dynavector cartridge is a fantastic thing to have on your first deck, and I bet it will sound excellent.
Having a local dealer that stocks your product makes for an ideal situation too, and is more than enough reason to buy a Rega deck, especially if you're looking at buying new. The review published calls the additional power supply on the P5/P7 a ''no brainer'' so definately worth an audition it seems..
Michaelab - you might want to PM ian (sideshow). He knows the secret locations of all of Londons best vinyl shops!
For 1200, a NA deck wouldnt come with an arm anything like as good as the VPI arm. It would almost certainly be a Rega RB300. If you put a good unipivot on like a Morch you'd be nearer 2,000 for a spacedeck.
Michell decks would come with the plain cooking rega too for that money, probably a gyro SE.
A kuzma Stabi/Stogi S comes with a great unipivot for around 1600 pounds. Again, thats 400 more than a scout though. Great deck IMO
SO! for 1200, I cant think of a better new deck than a scout - especially taking into account the arm.
The P75 phonostage and matching dynavector cartridge is a fantastic thing to have on your first deck, and I bet it will sound excellent.
Having a local dealer that stocks your product makes for an ideal situation too, and is more than enough reason to buy a Rega deck, especially if you're looking at buying new. The review published calls the additional power supply on the P5/P7 a ''no brainer'' so definately worth an audition it seems..
Michaelab - you might want to PM ian (sideshow). He knows the secret locations of all of Londons best vinyl shops!
Sorry Dex, I thought we were talking about new decks on this occasion. Most of the companies you list (from across Europe) are long dead or making reproduction kit, much like the UK furniture industry.
Roksan - dodgy build quality on s'h Xerxes
Pink Triange - RIP
Systemdeck - RIP
Audionote - reproduction Systemdeck
Garrard - pretty much RIP
Kuzma - Yugoslavian
Ariston - Chinese
Thorens - RIP
Bluenote - Italian
DPS -German?
Manticore - RIP
Oh and I'm British! It's just as easy to be embarrassed for us, especially when we show the introverted qualities you Yanks are justly famous for
It is that outlook that I find depressing - one thing I will say is that the sound from the Vpi has far greater scale and spaciousness than even the LP12 exhibits. It sounds more natural and flowing to my ears than the Michell Orbe SE I used before (although the Michell showed greater weight with SME V on board). Note that I am comparing the Scout to decks costing 3 or 4 times the price. So is it any wonder why I get dismayed when UK dulletin boards ignore it's very existance?
Roksan - dodgy build quality on s'h Xerxes
Pink Triange - RIP
Systemdeck - RIP
Audionote - reproduction Systemdeck
Garrard - pretty much RIP
Kuzma - Yugoslavian
Ariston - Chinese
Thorens - RIP
Bluenote - Italian
DPS -German?
Manticore - RIP
Oh and I'm British! It's just as easy to be embarrassed for us, especially when we show the introverted qualities you Yanks are justly famous for
It is that outlook that I find depressing - one thing I will say is that the sound from the Vpi has far greater scale and spaciousness than even the LP12 exhibits. It sounds more natural and flowing to my ears than the Michell Orbe SE I used before (although the Michell showed greater weight with SME V on board). Note that I am comparing the Scout to decks costing 3 or 4 times the price. So is it any wonder why I get dismayed when UK dulletin boards ignore it's very existance?
joel
Shaman of Signals
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FWIW, Thorens continue to make decks (for the "Far Eastern" marrket, at least) and Garrard appear to be in rude health with the 501, 601 and the really excellent Missing Link phono stages (which are a serious bargain for what you get), oh yes and and the RCM and L'Art du Son concentrate, not to mention the 301 and 401 restoration work and the various plinths and motors. I suspect they ahve a larger turnover than quite a few higher-profile TT makers.
The VPI Scout I've heard seemed good, but it wasn't a miracle deck by any means.
I don't think VPI is unjustly ignored by the British any more than Nottingham is by dumb Yanks or the even more sonically challenged Japanese ;-)
The VPI Scout I've heard seemed good, but it wasn't a miracle deck by any means.
I don't think VPI is unjustly ignored by the British any more than Nottingham is by dumb Yanks or the even more sonically challenged Japanese ;-)
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Hi Joel,
I'd love to know how many decks Loricraft make per annum, but I suspect it is less than twenty ;-)
Sorry for my Thorens mistake, I got them confused with Ariston. Their new range is also available in the States, but they look like a new company - probably of far east origin - trading on the name.
And if you do a search on AA for NA you will find a great deal of interest Stateside in those excellent decks.
All I am saying here, is that if you are researching turntables in the £1k - £2K bracket, you really ought to include the Vpi on your list to dem. You may find, like me, that it appeals more than many supposed references ;-)
Happy new year BTW
I'd love to know how many decks Loricraft make per annum, but I suspect it is less than twenty ;-)
Sorry for my Thorens mistake, I got them confused with Ariston. Their new range is also available in the States, but they look like a new company - probably of far east origin - trading on the name.
And if you do a search on AA for NA you will find a great deal of interest Stateside in those excellent decks.
All I am saying here, is that if you are researching turntables in the £1k - £2K bracket, you really ought to include the Vpi on your list to dem. You may find, like me, that it appeals more than many supposed references ;-)
Happy new year BTW
I know plenty about the Rega and Rega decks in general, but nothing at all about the VPI Scout.
Am I reading the wrong magazines or something, or not enough of them...?
Regards,
JonR
Am I reading the wrong magazines or something, or not enough of them...?
Regards,
JonR
sideshowbob
Trisha
It's simple - VPI don't have particularly good UK distribution. Nothing more sinister than that.
I've never heard one so can't comment on what they sound like. I note that Roy Gregory really likes them, past experience suggests that means I won't.
Loricraft make a handful of turntables a year because Terry Sullivan chooses to. They could sell far far more, no question about that.
-- Ian
I've never heard one so can't comment on what they sound like. I note that Roy Gregory really likes them, past experience suggests that means I won't.
Loricraft make a handful of turntables a year because Terry Sullivan chooses to. They could sell far far more, no question about that.
-- Ian
Hmmm.....seems a shame really cos the Roy Gregory review I've just read makes me curious about the Scout now but then again, it's nearly twice the price of the P5 which is the subject of this thread so hardly a like-for-like comparison.
Now if I was in the market for a P7 however.........
Regards,
JonR
joel
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As I understand it, Loricraft are as busy as they want to be, if not busier. If they don't appear to make make many new decks it is because they are not interested in doing so and do not need to curry favour with the usual suspects to keep their order book full.
I probably sound like MP, but their work is of a very high standard, and the phono stage is really good.
From the website it seems that Thorens is owned by some kind of Swiss-German partnership and made in Germany (they wouldn't be able to sell them in Japan if the TTs were made in China...).
I think that VPI would have to raise their prices in the UK considerably to cover the costs of better distribution and promotions. It probably isn't worth it for them ATM.
NAS are big in the US and very big in Japan FWIW.
I probably sound like MP, but their work is of a very high standard, and the phono stage is really good.
From the website it seems that Thorens is owned by some kind of Swiss-German partnership and made in Germany (they wouldn't be able to sell them in Japan if the TTs were made in China...).
I think that VPI would have to raise their prices in the UK considerably to cover the costs of better distribution and promotions. It probably isn't worth it for them ATM.
NAS are big in the US and very big in Japan FWIW.
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michaelab
desafinado
Not at all. Rega came to the top of my shortlist because they were strongly recommended on the forums (not just this one). They also meet my requirement for being cat friendly. The Rega dealer here in Lisbon is one of the few that still takes a serious interest in vinyl (and has always done so). He's someone I got on well with and shares many of my views on hifi in general. He's someone with a lot of experience in an area I have none (vinyl) who'll help me out.merlin said:I can only assume the badge is of great importance here
OTOH VPI have no distributor in Portugal that I'm aware of. Do you seriously think I would have been better off buying your s/h Scout (or even a new one somewhere in London), getting it shipped to Portugal (with all the problems that might entail) and then being basically on my own with it rather than getting a P5 from a local dealer?
There are practical considerations aswell, and those considerations also affect UK buyers (to a lesser extent) when considering whether to buy some of the less well known products from the US that you champion.
Oh, btw, nowhere in the review does Art Dudley remotely say that the P7 would "struggle" against the Scout
Michael.
Yup true - that has to be a consideration.
I'm pretty sure there are a lot more Rega dealers in the UK than VPI dealers.
Regards,
JonR
Michael,
You summed it up,
So basically, one manufacturer was recommended on your forums, you go to it's local distributor, listen to the one product, then buy it. No point of reference, no comparison nothing. That strikes me as being a less than ideal way of getting the best you can for your money. But it's your money of course.
All I am trying to do is redress that balance, not suggest you have made a mistake. FWIW, I'd rather own a Scout with SDS than even a P9 (and save £700!), but that's me and these things are personal.
FWIW, I've bought a lot of kit without UK backup and never once regretted it. Ive been able to buy better sound for less IMO. Do let me know what can go so radically wrong with a tt that justifies the extra expense and I might have to reconsider
I really hope you enjoy your new adventure in hifi as much as I have
You summed it up,
So basically, one manufacturer was recommended on your forums, you go to it's local distributor, listen to the one product, then buy it. No point of reference, no comparison nothing. That strikes me as being a less than ideal way of getting the best you can for your money. But it's your money of course.
All I am trying to do is redress that balance, not suggest you have made a mistake. FWIW, I'd rather own a Scout with SDS than even a P9 (and save £700!), but that's me and these things are personal.
FWIW, I've bought a lot of kit without UK backup and never once regretted it. Ive been able to buy better sound for less IMO. Do let me know what can go so radically wrong with a tt that justifies the extra expense and I might have to reconsider
I really hope you enjoy your new adventure in hifi as much as I have
michaelab said:Oh, btw, nowhere in the review does Art Dudley remotely say that the P7 would "struggle" against the Scout
Michael.
Value for money Michael
Comparable performance. One $2,600. One $1,600. I'd say it's a struggle to justify the extra over there, would you disagree?
Merlin,
A Scout with SDS?
What's SDS if you don't mind me asking.
TIA.
JonR
A Scout with SDS?
What's SDS if you don't mind me asking.
TIA.
JonR
Fuzzy Math
If we accept that the quoted UK price for the Scout is £1200 and we add an SDS PSU at about £700, your VPI combo now sits at £1900 versus £1298 for the Rega P7 which includes the TT/PSU.
And, quick as you please, the "struggle", as you have applied it, now seems to be on the other foot!
Just trying to redress the balance here!
Cheers, Dex
merlin said:
If we accept that the quoted UK price for the Scout is £1200 and we add an SDS PSU at about £700, your VPI combo now sits at £1900 versus £1298 for the Rega P7 which includes the TT/PSU.
And, quick as you please, the "struggle", as you have applied it, now seems to be on the other foot!
Just trying to redress the balance here!
Cheers, Dex
michaelab
desafinado
Well, it's not really relevant how Dudley ranks price/performance in the US market over here is it? Especially as the low value of the dollar is likely to make the P7 expensive in the US, particularly compared to home grown products like VPI.
I did compare it to the most expensive setup the dealer had, the full monty Clearaudio Reference setup and that comparison told me what I needed to know
. I haven't bought the P5 yet but it's highly unlikely that I won't have done within a month or so. There are perhaps 3 or 4 other dealers in Lisbon that know a decent amount about vinyl. Of those the only I'm aware of that keeps a decent range of TTs for audition only has the Avid range and the new MF TT, neither of which particularly tempt me.I'm just looking forward to enjoying more music
Michael.
Dexter,
just to correct your misunderstanding, the comparison did not include the SDS which would take the Scout into whole new ground
So Scout (ship from AA or Elusive Disc) £1,000 incl. shipping and taxes. P7 £1,300. Close but no cigar
just to correct your misunderstanding, the comparison did not include the SDS which would take the Scout into whole new ground
So Scout (ship from AA or Elusive Disc) £1,000 incl. shipping and taxes. P7 £1,300. Close but no cigar
Aren't you forgetting something...the cartridge?
