Naim AV2/NAPV175 etc.

Hi Chris,

I'm only messing around mate, I just like to raise peoples blood pressure on a Friday afternoon! It was all said in jest I can assure you. :)

Sam
 
If however you aren't bothered about stereo reproduction and would prefer to keep the hi-fi seperate to the HC, then it's worth considering the Lexicons and Tags etc.
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To bring this into perspective, Matt's original post stated that he ALREADY has a TAG, that he IS bothered about stereo reproduction and that he wants a processor that has 7.1 and analogue bypass as standard which his current TAG doesn't. Nor do many of the other processors people have mentioned, as fantastic as they may be. ;)

Liam.
 
Originally posted by Fireman Sam
If however you aren't bothered about stereo reproduction and would prefer to keep the hi-fi seperate to the HC, then it's worth considering the Lexicons and Tags etc.
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I'm not so sure about that because I'd say that what is so good about the AV32R is that it's blo*dy good as a stereo pre amp (they even brought out a stereo only version because of this ââ'¬â€œ the DPA32R). In fact, when I got my AV32R, I spent the first few hours listening to CD's because I felt it that good (especially using it's internal DACs). The reviews back this up ââ'¬â€œ it's always been known as doing stereo very well, if not up there with the better pure stereo pre-amps. The 192kHz DAC version of the AV32R is said to be a step up from the 96kHz DAC version which should make it excellent for stereo reproduction.

On the other hand, the older Lexicon units (DC's and, to a lesser extent, the MC1) have (as far as I'm aware) never been very well rated for reproducing stereo. I've heard that the MC8/MC12 are supposed to be a lot, lot better in this respect though.

So, I'd bracket Tag with Meridian i.e. great with movies, very good with music but put the older Lexicon models firmly in the movie camp.

You might therefore be wondering ââ'¬â€œ if the Tag's so good, why change it? The answer is simple ââ'¬â€œ I want' a 5.1 bypass for DVD-A/SACD and, although my Tag could be upgraded accordingly (and get 192 DAC's thrown into the bargain) it would appear to work out cheaper to sell mine and then buy another processor that already has those features.

Matt.
 
In that case I am guilty of not reading the thread closely enough!

There's only one processor for you Matt, the Bryston SP 1.7. It compares favourably with the Meridian 568.2 in multichannel mode but has the 'benefit' of an analogue bypass.

I'm not sure what they fetch these days, but there's one on Ebay.co.uk at the moment for £3250, which I think seems a bit steep.

FS
 
Originally posted by Matt F
I'm not so sure about that because I'd say that what is so good about the AV32R is that it's blo*dy good as a stereo pre amp (they even brought out a stereo only version because of this ââ'¬â€œ the DPA32R). In fact, when I got my AV32R, I spent the first few hours listening to CD's because I felt it that good (especially using it's internal DACs). The reviews back this up ââ'¬â€œ it's always been known as doing stereo very well, if not up there with the better pure stereo pre-amps. The 192kHz DAC version of the AV32R is said to be a step up from the 96kHz DAC version which should make it excellent for stereo reproduction.

On the other hand, the older Lexicon units (DC's and, to a lesser extent, the MC1) have (as far as I'm aware) never been very well rated for reproducing stereo. I've heard that the MC8/MC12 are supposed to be a lot, lot better in this respect though.

So, I'd bracket Tag with Meridian i.e. great with movies, very good with music but put the older Lexicon models firmly in the movie camp.

You might therefore be wondering ââ'¬â€œ if the Tag's so good, why change it? The answer is simple ââ'¬â€œ I want' a 5.1 bypass for DVD-A/SACD and, although my Tag could be upgraded accordingly (and get 192 DAC's thrown into the bargain) it would appear to work out cheaper to sell mine and then buy another processor that already has those features.

Matt.
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Matt,

The Bryston has 192KHz DACs but Bryston chose to run them at 96KHz because the sound quality is better apparently!

It does seem to me to be the only option, if of course you like it and can justify the price.

FS

Oh, and I think the 568.2 sounds better than the Tag BP192! ;)
 
merlin,
i'm not opposed to a bit of froth, the odd cappucino is quite pleasant.
it's just occurred to me that perhaps your reason for getting all that sim moon kit is that you mistook it for a coffee machine and wanted to eliminate your froth deficiency. when you discovered it made vaguely musical sounds and not capuccino you immediately decided to sell it as that wasn't what you wanted it for. ahh it all starts to make sense now. ;)

cheers


julian
 
Originally posted by Fireman Sam
There's only one processor for you Matt, the Bryston SP 1.7. It compares favourably with the Meridian 568.2 in multichannel mode but has the 'benefit' of an analogue bypass.
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How I'd love a Bryston SP1.7 - alas I don't think I'm going to get one for the £2K I'm willing to spend.

So, It's probably going to come down to 3 choices:

1. Naim AV2
2. Classe SSP30 MKII
3. Tag AV32R-BP192

There may be a few others around (Myryad, Primare, Parasound etc) but none have cropped up ex-dem. To be honest, if it wasn't for the recent happenings at Tag (and possible question marks over their future) then I'd probably go for the AV32R-BP192 without even thinking about it.

And let's not forget that I won't be doing anything unless someone comes up with £1100 for my current AV32R!

Matt.
 
Matt,

Sorry I only read this thread now, the Naim mention kept me away... :p

As you know I had the AV32R for a while, to tell you the truth, I didn't notice much improvement with movies, comparing with my previous Onkyo 787, of course it was better with music, and more flexible... :rolleyes:

Now, the DP is a totally different ball game, even not using TMREQ...

As for "standard" code, I think my Krell Showcase uses it, with the same chips as top Lexicons, and it does surround as well, or better than TAG's DP, the most important is the analog part, power supply, construction, etc... :MILD:
 
Originally posted by julian2002
merlin,

it's just occurred to me that perhaps your reason for getting all that sim moon kit is that you mistook it for a coffee machine and wanted to eliminate your froth deficiency. julian
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Sorry for the delay replying Julian, afternoon spent auditioning a Naim/Dynaudio system with a view to purchase.

I didn't buy! But I now understand what Naimees mean by communication.

Sitting there on it's QS rack, with all those lovely green lights, it certainly communicates affluence to the unitiated, indeed it's an aestetic masterpiece.

Shame it sounds so dire:(
 
merlin,
it was set up wrong, the speakers weren;t naim as well and the power supply wasn;t right, with it's own spur and everything.
hey, if it's not for you, it's not for you, as the line in white men can;t jump goes, YOU can listen to the naim but you can't hear it, i can hear it - or somethign similar.
i've heard naim kit called many things, agricultural, the product of cold war russian engineering, pig f*cking ugly but never communicative of affluence, i would have thought something big and shiny with lits of buttons and dials on it, lit up in blue would be better for showing off than some nondescript olive green and black boxes with some green writing on them.
by the way what did you listen to?
cheers


julian
 
Nouveau Chic I believe could be the term, looked stunning with the balck and natural wood decor. Gary would be proud.

The system was 202/hiCap/200/CDX2.

I hear it sure, the solid wall, the deep bass and the speed. But real instruments don't sound anything like that! In a few words, I would sadly sum up as "dry as Ethiopia after a twenty year drought".

There were pluses! The hihats sounded very good for CD, although vinyl is better here IMO. What got me was the guy kept pulling out his audiophile recordings to make it sound good, and on these I was reasonably impressed.

But if it can't play BV200 or cheapo compilations then it isn't putting the musical communication first. I have heard these discs sound uplifting on a lot of gear, on the Naim they sounded shite.

I can also understand why if you are used to the NAim house sound, everything else will sound slightly "off". Sadly I feel it is the Naim sound that is "off" in this instance, failing to preserve the true character of many recordings.

Like you say, you either dig it or you don't. Maybe you can learn to dig it, but that should not be neccessary. HiFi is about accurate reproduction along with entertainment. Neither baby should be thrown out with the bathwater. Sadly, for me, Naim are murderers!!!
 
Merlin it all becomes clear to me now. You arn't really interested in music are you?

Common you can be honest, theres no shame in it. Afterall you change your kit more than I change my pants (weekly) and your interest in they way you communicate to us is clearly not regarding music.

I have never read you actually refering to any music what so ever, only ever generic fluffy sounding sentences which mean nothing to no one.

I am not bitching or moaning, I don't care that you don't like naim or indeed that you think that I am rich (snigger I wish) I am just happy that for instance when Julian was over here it was more about the music we could play than the system being listened to.

It is for this reason that I won't take what you say personally any more, you like listening to HIFI kit I like listening to music, ts just horses for courses.

Have fun.
 
Originally posted by garyi
Merlin it all becomes clear to me now. You arn't really interested in music are you?

It is for this reason that I won't take what you say personally any more, you like listening to HIFI kit I like listening to music, ts just horses for courses.

Have fun.
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Lawrence,

On today's evidence, it is I that likes listening to music, and you that enjoys listening to a Naim system's interpretation of it.

I am only to happy to discuss my varied musical tastes, however it might have escaped your notice that this section comes under the heading of "the gear". Therefore it might be inappropriate to discuss the finer points of Talvin Singh's tabla playing.
 
Gary,

It took you this long to realize Merlin is into hifi, not music... :cry:
 
merlin,
as you say you either like the naim sound or you don't. although i would dispute that it is a 'learnt' like. i liked the naim sound from the off and the only thing i knew about them was from a 1 page review in what hi-fi as part of a group test which the cyrus system won, so i don;t think i was being swayed by 'fasion' or anything else other than the sound. it even pursuaded me to not bother with a digital out as i was a keen mini-disc user up to this point. even the nait's power deficiency against the other amps i tried wasn;t enough to stop me going for it.
talvin singh sounds great on my system to me, and that's all that matters.
cheers


julian
 
Lowrider, sorry, I really truely thought that music is what all this geekery is about, its shocking when the music would appear to be the secondry aspect.

I guess this is why people change their gear so much, not so much the music as the hobby.

As I say though there is nothing wrong with this, lets face it its a blokes thing. I like all sorts of stuff I don't really need, I have a nice G4 mac, but want a G5 although I don't need it, I also want a palm pilot, I don't need one.

Its just a male trait I guess, that desire to have something new and shiney all the time.

However my main reason for debt it not hifi, its music, I spend to much on it, but it is just so great to get some new stuff on every weekend.
 
Originally posted by garyi
Lowrider, sorry, I really truely thought that music is what all this geekery is about, its shocking when the music would appear to be the secondry aspect.

I guess this is why people change their gear so much, not so much the music as the hobby.

As I say though there is nothing wrong with this, lets face it its a blokes thing. I like all sorts of stuff I don't really need, I have a nice G4 mac, but want a G5 although I don't need it, I also want a palm pilot, I don't need one.

Its just a male trait I guess, that desire to have something new and shiney all the time.

However my main reason for debt it not hifi, its music, I spend to much on it, but it is just so great to get some new stuff on every weekend.
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I love the chrome too, but I have more fun just watching/listening to MEZZO nowadays, than discussing gear... :rolleyes:
 
I'll tell you what Gary!

After today I can understand why you would buy Naim kit. After all it's really modern minimalist, colour coordinated, and sits well in an understated way with the Mac and general minimalist decor.

I on the other hand am prepared to put up with some aestetic no nos to get pleasure from my music collection. As you say, horses for courses, but please! Acoustic instruments do NOT sound like that. I'll stick with my hifi thankyou! I like authenticity I'm afraid.

I can see that my findings upset the Salisbury boys. Well sorry, but I went along today hoping to find out what you are all on about. Sadly the compromises were too much for me, although I now understand more. The sound is so unique, that nothing else will give you that presentation so why bother looking. I can now understand the "sheep" mentality, gradually upgrading through the Naim range without looking to alternatives. I guess all the others must be wrong;)

Getting back to the thread topic (sorry Matt!), I guess the Naim sound is either something you love or despise- there seems no middle ground. Get a good dem and listen for yourself. Just use your ears, Naim really is something you have to hear to understand. As an alternative, the best music performance I have heard from a recent (relatively inexpensive used) processor would be the EAD TheatreMaster Ovation 8 . I could easily live with one of those or it's derivitives. Again a word of warning, it does not feature true EX or ES if that is important, but the analogue bypass is to die for!
 
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