New cartridge

robM said:
I now truly believe you can't get real great quality on the cheap.

Please don't all reply and say 'the NAD 3020' is great quality.... because I think you all know what I mean.
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On the cheap, no, but at a reasonable cost, yes.

The problem with many very expensive MCs is that they contain rather a lot of MSG. They sound different to the best £200-500 models by adding flavour. The AT33 will sound very close to a high quality digital source both in terms of tonality and distortion and in my book that makes it a superb cartridge because I don't want additives.

The old Technics EPC205 and 305MC were also very truthful cartridges and much missed.
 
Why spend that much on a cart with diminishing returns setting in around 800 pounds?

A Shelter 501 Mk II or one of the new low output Benz Micro (Glider is a real bargain) carts will work well in the SME and be well under your budget.

Spend it on good vinyl instead.
 
on that Shelter note.... the 901 is excellent. I have a spare which needs retipping which I will do at some point soon. It is a lot better than the 501 MK2. Diminishing returns???? I have a ZYX UniVerse (4D) which is the best cartridge I have owned and light years ahead of anything else I know of. I don't think the law of diminishing returns happens until approx £4000 with cartridges. The law changes with all equipment.
 
So what did you go for Devil? I'm quite interested to know. I may be looking to get a new cart myself in the £1k price range soon for my SME 309, I'm thinking Benz Wood, Shelter 901, maybe even a Koetsu Red.
 
mr c you would deffo be better getting a better sme arm like the 4 or 5 series then getting a cart like a denon 110 or 304 or maybe an audio technica.
you will get better results then.

regards

darryl.
 
darrylfunk said:
mr c you would deffo be better getting a better sme arm like the 4 or 5 series then getting a cart like a denon 110 or 304 or maybe an audio technica.
you will get better results then.

regards

darryl.
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This seems to be a common response when I have asked this question of other audiophiles in the past, although I don't know why :confused: When I bought my 309 I demoed it against the V and although the V does some things VERY well, it lacks life and I found it distinctly un-musical. The detachable headshell is another major benefit to me. My 309 is not going to be changed. In fact I'm having it modified soon so it will be significantly improved. I also own a Denon DL304 as a back-up cartridge (and it is extremely good for the money) but my system demands something of significantly better quality.

So, back to the original conundrum - top 2 on my list are the Koetsu Red and the Benz Wood L2. Shelter and Zyx are possibilities - if I can get to listen to them (although I'm not sure of their compatibilty with my arm). Where is this possible within the Midlands?
 
The 309 is a fine arm. Ok you can pick bits that might be better on the IV or V but the 309 can certainly carry a top flight MC and deliver. I had one on a Michell for a few years and yes the IV I eventually upgraded to was better but we are a talking a few fine increments here.
 
i was making a suggestion that the arm will basically be better full stop and that means you have less dangly bits to worry about.

if your keeping the 309 try a transfiguration or maybe a shelter if new is required but i had fun with a rebuilt koetsu red and a couple of kisekis over the years.

the emt's work well on sme arms too.
 
Hi Mr c

Reason for what you describe is the different internal wiring .The Sme 5/4 use VDH (van den hul)cabling and that (can depending on cart)suck the life out of things. This is why in the states Sumiko spec cardas for their version of the 4 Arm .
The 309 used to have plain copper cable that was not VDH and thus when you put the fluid damping accessorie on it etc it could sound better than the 5 or 4 in certain set ups (not always).
I have a 5 arm on an Oracle with a Lyra cart and that works well as the slight heaviness in the arms sound is of set by the fast lighter balance of the cart and turntable.

Regards D Louth
 
darrylfunk said:
i was making a suggestion that the arm will basically be better full stop and that means you have less dangly bits to worry about.

if your keeping the 309 try a transfiguration or maybe a shelter if new is required but i had fun with a rebuilt koetsu red and a couple of kisekis over the years.

the emt's work well on sme arms too.
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Who rebuilt the Koetsu? I had my old (early 90s) Koetsu Black done by Expert Stylus and thought it was a top job, but I'm open to other suggestions. Also, have you heard any Shelter carts? I have only heard about them, but word of mouth is very favourable, so I am interested. Or maybe just get my 304 rebuilt by Expert as I hear they do a fantastic job making it into a much higher quality cart.

I'm usually quite sure of what I want when I buy hifi but this one has me scratching my head.
 
one cart was done for a dealer by van den hul and it sounded very nice and one was done by expert which was also very nice.
neither of the rebuit carts sounded better than the originals just a tiny bit different i found in general that they both sounded a tad brighter than the originals but not so it would make real problems setting up the system.
its not worth rebuilding a denon just trade it in for a discount on a new version.

shelters and benz carts are a bit like the denons in that they are not to warm or to bright but still nicely judged carts.

good al rounders, i have tried a zyx but it was too bright in my set up as was my demo of the lyras , i just found them a little to fiery for me ...
 
Cheers darrylfunk, very helpful info - I think my mind is getting a little clearer!
 
re-tipping

When it comes to re-tips the new Expert Stylus profile is pretty much the bees knees. I've had my Red Signature re-tipped by ES about 7 times now over the years BUT this new ES profile changes the Signature into a delicate little minx with Koetsu lush images and power. I would only recommend ES for re-tips as their work is second to none and they are based near Leatherhead.

R
 

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