Not another cable debate...

[Hodgesaargh]

I know what I hear, that's all I'll say.

 

[Tenson]

As the professor from Futurama said "That's cheating! You are changing the result by measuring it!"

How about everything in the universe can be explained by science? Happy with that? I remember there are supposed to be these magic rules that can describe the state of anything in the universe... but we only have 2 of 3 or something like that. Einstein was working on them for most of his life.

Anyhoo.. I expect most of the difference between warm and cool equipment is in the capacitors and transformers. Invent an amp with no capacitors or transformers and I doubt it will sound much different when warm from cold.

 

[wadia-miester]

Good to see the same old faces here, I think this a more reasoned and logical debate than last time
This is good stuff chaps, please do continue

 

[Saab]

my system sounds awful cold,not even close to what it souds like warmed up,you could be deaf and still tell when its warmed up

 

[Hodgesaargh]

Originally posted by Saab
my system sounds awful cold,not even close to what it souds like warmed up,you could be deaf and still tell when its warmed up

Yeah you just have to touch the amp's lid, innit?

 

[tones]

Originally posted by Saab
my system sounds awful cold,not even close to what it souds like warmed up,you could be deaf and still tell when its warmed up

Once upon a time, the difference 'twixt "just switched on" and "sometime later" in mine was precisely nothing, at least nothing that I could hear. But then I acquired Sideshowbob's EAR 834 valve pre-amp. Now the difference is marked. When I switch it on, the wretched thing doesn't make a noise of any kind, at least not for some seconds. But when it does, it sounds just the same as it does much later. Zank heaven for leetle non-temperamental hi-fi systems.

 

[Saab]

have you just finished watching Scarface Tones? or a Spaghetti Western?

 

[tones]

"Gigi" actually, where the inimitable Maurice Chevalier sang it about leetle girls.

Zank heaven for leetle wires
for leetle wires get zicker every day!

Zank heaven for leetle wires
Zey coil up in ze most delightful way!

Zose little plugs so helpless and appealing
one day will flash and send you crashing through ze ceiling

Zank heaven for leetle wires
Zank heaven for zem all,
Zo verry free from all O2
for wizzout them, what would little Saabs do?

 

[michaelab]

Originally posted by tones
"Gigi" actually, where the inimitable Maurice Chevalier sang it about leetle girls.

It's funny - the film, and particularly *that* song would probably never have been allowed these days. The tabloids would have branded the whole thing a paedophile film

I'm not getting in volved in the cable discussion btw but it looks like it's going better than previous ones have :MILD:

Michael.

 

[joel]

What is most interesting in this thread is the lack of interest in what happens to*us* while we're listening, whether we need time to *warm up* (become acclimatised), and whether our perception changes over time.
Very illuminating.

 

[analoguekid]

Originally posted by michaelab


I'm not getting in volved in the cable discussion btw but it looks like it's going better than previous ones have :MILD:

Michael.

thats coz it's not a cable debate Michael, posted this when drunk, but sound basis for my beliefs, at the end of the day who cares wether reults we find are real or imagined as long as they are repeatable then gains woth paying for.

Some with me then, some not sure, I personally don't know the reason why warm kit sounds better to me, but it does, was just a crazy theory as to reason for this as physics says electricla conductance is more efficient at lower temp.

Paul

 

[7_V]

I'm not an electronics engineer either but I have a feeling that it's the active devices - transistors and diodes - that perhaps work better when hot.

Can anyone confirm?

 

[merlin]

Originally posted by michaelab
I'm not getting in volved in the cable discussion btw but it looks like it's going better than previous ones have :MILD:

Michael.

About time we changed that then Michael

What is most interesting in this thread is the lack of interest in what happens to*us* while we're listening, whether we need time to *warm up* (become acclimatised), and whether our perception changes over time.

A very good point Joel. I believe Keith Howard did an experiment in which he was unable to measure ANY differences at all between the two states in either the frequency or time domain. Does this not mean, according to current thinking, that it is all imaginary?

 

[tones]

Originally posted by michaelab
It's funny - the film, and particularly *that* song would probably never have been allowed these days. The tabloids would have branded the whole thing a paedophile film

Slightly off-topic, but some wonderful songs (Lerner and Loewe after all - "Brigadoon" and "My Fair Lady"). Best of all in the film, the marvellous one with Chevalier (Honoré) and Herminone Gingold (Grandmama):

HONORE:
We met at nine
GRANDMAMA:
We met at eight
HONORE:
I was on time
GRANDMAMA:
No, you were late
HONORE:
Ah yes, I remember it well.
We dined with friends
GRANDMAMA:
We dined alone.
HONORE:
A tenor sang
GRANDMAMA:
A baritone.
HONORE:
Ah yes, I remember it well.
That dazzling April moon!
GRANDMAMA:
There was none that night.
And the month was June
HONORE:
That's right, that's right.
GRANDMAMA:
It warms my heart
To know that you
Remember still
The way you do
HONORE:
Ah yes, I remember it well.
How often I've thought of that Friday--
GRANDMAMA:
Monday--
HONORE:
Night, when we had our last rendezvous
And somehow I foolishly wondered if you might
By some chance be thinkin' of it too
That carriage ride
GRANDMAMA:
You walked me home
HONORE::
You lost a glove
GRANDMAMA:
I lost a comb
HONORE:
Ah yes, I remember it well.
That brilliant sky!
GRANDMAMA:
We had some rain
HONORE:
Those Russian songs
GRANDMAMA:
From sunny Spain?
HONORE:
Ah yes, I remember it well.
You wore a gown of gold
GRANDMAMA:
I was all in blue
HONORE:
Am I getting old?
GRANDMAMA:
Oh no, not you!
How strong you were
How young and gay
A prince of love
In every way
HONORE:
Ah yes, I remember it well.

 

[spxy]

What I would like to see in a cable debate/review is this a comment on how tight the connectors were on the mains/interconnect/speaker cable and also the size of the conductor(remember a small solid core cable is as big as a thick multistrand as there is a lot of space in a multi strand).
I will believe you will find in general that the tighter the fit the better the sound, but that a small diameter cable with a loose fit would sound better than a large diameter with a loose fit.I believe the effects of the purity of copper and insulation are small and that its all in the mechanical properties of the cable.
Some cable size meterial types will solder better ( more contact) to certain types of plugs which could be a better fit on your equipment plug etc etc.

I would like to see a load of cable with the same plugs, and a loaad of equipment with the same sockets then we can proprerly test if any diffrences are in the cable type, or the mechanical properties of the cable.

I believe cables can definatly change the sounds but its all in basic mechanics not the quatum world.

 

[PeteH]

Originally posted by merlin
I believe Keith Howard did an experiment in which he was unable to measure ANY differences at all between the two states in either the frequency or time domain. Does this not mean, according to current thinking, that it is all imaginary?

Well I'd have thought so. I was under the impression, though, that you do get measurable performance differences between cold and warm, particularly for speakers (although obviously I'd also suggest that when people report hearing these differences they can sometimes be rather exaggerated )

 

[wadia-miester]

Originally posted by PeteH
Well I'd have thought so.

Careful Pete, Prosumptiousness does not become you

 

[joel]

Originally posted by merlin
A very good point Joel. I believe Keith Howard did an experiment in which he was unable to measure ANY differences at all between the two states in either the frequency or time domain. Does this not mean, according to current thinking, that it is all imaginary?

In a sense, yes. Music exists entirely in our mind. Music does not become music until it reaches our brains (and as far as science is able to tell only our brains). The first and ultimate converter is the hippocampus or wherever it is they've localised "music" to this week. THe mechanics of the ear, and the wahy and hows of our evolution also need to be taken into account. We aevolved as hunter gatherers, whose hearing served the primary purpose of warning us of imminant danger and of informing us of potential prey. THis has lead to certain evolutionary quirks...