Objectivism is a myth...

LOL! I like it. I've nothing personal against the gent, but he once tried to suggest that Mana puts notes out of tune(!) I know a couple of professional pianists very well indeed, and neither of them can hear this alleged effect in my system...when I told him this, he suggested that they were tone-deaf.

One of them is the resident at the RSNO. I'm sure she'd be thrilled to hear this suggestion from an unknown hi-fi expert!

P.S. NANA = **** Audio North America
 
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Originally posted by lowrider
There is only one definition, using it for those who dont believe in tweaks is wrong, IMHO... :rolleyes:

You can only say you never heard differences with tweaks, not that there arent any, otherwise you are calling liars all those who say they heard them, and I am not saying that none are liars... :(

Galileu and others went through that, with much important subjects, like life in Mars, wich is the latest big argument... :eek:
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Trouble is, Antonio, your definition is essentially meaningless, as it auitomatically covers everyone who ever bought a hi-fi.

I agree that I can only say that I never heard any differences with tweaks. And I would never call anyone on ZG a liar (i.e., a person who deliberately perverts the truth). I believe that the tweak enthusiasts really did hear (or thought they heard) what they said they heard (or thought they heard). What they heard may have no existence in reality, but that's OK by me - they are not making it up.

I once did the same things. I heard improvements in an IC because I wanted it to be better. The improvement existed only in my head, as I later found out when, with a more sceptical turn of mind, I listened again.

I thought that the latest big argument was whether life as we know it exists in the White House...
 
Originally posted by 7_V

Have you seen the very first sentence that Harman use to describe themselves? "Harman International is a company of listeners"
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Nobody has a problem with listening it's the looking that Harman have an issue with:

It is generally accepted among scientists that psychometric experiments must be performed double blind. For audio tests, this means the identities of the components under test cannot be made known to the listener, and the experimenter cannot not directly control or administer the actual test.

In 1996 Toole and Olive in [2] conducted some blind versus sighted loudspeaker tests that showed both experienced and inexperienced listeners judgments were significantly influenced by factors such as price, brand name, size and cosmetics. In fact, the effect of these biases in the sighted tests were larger than any other significant factors found in the blind tests, including loudspeaker, position and program interactions. These experiments clearly show that an accurate and unbiased measurement of sound quality requires that the tests be done blind.

Which I've quoted verbatim from page 10 of this paper

http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/HarmanWhitePaperMLLListeningLab.pdf

So, Harman really are a company of listeners - in the most appropriate sense:)
 
Well, it would be very nice of him if he did let me back in, but I can't be bothered to argue with 'experts' like Dave Simpson.
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Corrections:

Dave's not an "expert"...actually, he's not decided yet if being an "expert" is even desirable. (Christ bub, you could have left off the quotation marks and paid me at least one compliment ;-)

He used to be a Mana enthusiast, but now has an agenda with his Fraim, which NANA sold to him at a massive discount, allegedly.
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Not sure what "agenda" I could have other than the mana didn't work in the long run and the fraim did (does). Remove the "allegedly" and the rest of the sentence will be correct. I'm really at a loss here bub... I have no idea why it matters what amount I paid for my Fraims (unless you think I *wanted* to lose $2500 on a $5000 Mana investment--nevermind the hassles of selling it--just to buy the "new" Naim stand). FWIW, the discount was for reasons having nothing to do with Mana (it was because of a friendship actually).


Nice place Michael!

regards,

dave
 
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Originally posted by tones
I once did the same things. I heard improvements in an IC because I wanted it to be better. The improvement existed only in my head, as I later found out when, with a more sceptical turn of mind, I listened again.
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Do you think my wife wants any cable or tweak to sound better... :confused:

Believe me she doesnt, on the contrary, she always gives me a lot of shit when I come home with whatever new, but in the end she is amazed with what some unlikely things do to the sound, she didnt think the FMJ DV27 sounded any better than the DV88, but she thought the VDH Mainsstrean PCs where night and day, actually she thinks they made the system almost unlistenable, too agressive... :rolleyes:
 
when I told him this, he suggested that they were tone-deaf.
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Actually I believe I suggested her lack of hearing pitch alterations in your hifi might be indicative of her "hifi" listening biases. None of us use the same judgment or criteria when listening to a live event vs. a hifi. For example, ever say to your buddy during a live event "man, listen to those highs"?

regards,

dave

P.S. I wish you'd drop a note to Tony L. I (we) miss your mana-nagging ass...seriously dude.
 
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Originally posted by lowrider
Do you think my wife wants any cable or tweak to sound better... :confused:

Believe me she doesnt, on the contrary, she always gives me a lot of shit when I come home with whatever new, but in the end she is amazed with what some unlikely things do to the sound, she didnt think the FMJ DV27 sounded any better than the DV88, but she thought the VDH Mainsstrean PCs where night and day, actually she thinks they made the system almost unlistenable, too agressive... :rolleyes:
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I'm not sure whether that makes you lucky or unlucky! Mine is largely indifferent to the whole business - no, make that completely indifferent...
 
Ive tried to re-write this 3 times, in a way that wont give offense..!

Here goes :confused: please take no offense..


Theres no reason why anybodies dissinterested party should ..

1) not have an expectancy of improvement
2) not have a desire to hear a difference
3) be less influenced by sighted cues.

Equally, theres no reason why a partners hearing shouldnt hear everything we hear. Why should their opinion be diluted, or in some way less valuable because they're not mad on kit?? - its not like its rocket science, its just slightly different sounding music were talking about.. why should she be any different? Our ears arent any better at hearing changes than anyone elses..

:)
Cheers
Chris
 
It makes me lucky when she likes the changes, unlucky when she doesnt... :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by dave,dave,dave
Actually I believe I suggested her lack of hearing pitch alterations in your hifi might be indicative of her "hifi" listening biases. None of us use the same judgment or criteria when listening to a live event vs. a hifi. For example, ever say to your buddy during a live event "man, listen to those highs"?
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No, you said she/they were tone deaf. Funnily enough I have never said "man, listen to those highs" ever, to anyone, in any circumstances, but each to their own.

She/they are not interested in hi-fi at all, but they think that my system is the closest approximation to a concert Grand that they have ever heard. Lynda in particular was shocked at how realistic it sounds. She has recently been doing some work in New Zealand, where luckily all the inhabitants are stone deaf.

Dave, you have the three-wheeler 'Reliant Robin' of stands, so - great!
 
Rather 'speculative' sarcasm, Robbo.

It's all a question of priorities. I have a knackered old beemer, you have a slinky black Merc.

Regards,

James
 
James, whether or not your system is better than mine or vice versa is not the issue.

The point I am making is that your smugness and trumpet blowing is becoming rather tiresome. Other people also have very good systems, its just that they dont feel the need to constanly drone on about it. We all know you have a good system, so there's no need to tell us every 5 minutes.


Cheers, Robbo

Who has a hangover and is in a stroppy mood.
 
Originally posted by The Devil
Rather 'speculative' sarcasm, Robbo.

It's all a question of priorities. I have a knackered old beemer, you have a slinky black Merc.

Regards,

James
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Hi Bub,

Just to keep the peace....

Its also a question of preferences, not only priorities. Perhaps the Ninja Lp12/Naim/ Mana/ ATC sound isnt one that Robbo likes, or would seek to gain?

For myself, much as I admire these products, I wouldnt want them in my own home - I prefer an alternative presentation.

Vive le differance
:)
 

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