PC or Mac?

jtc, windows may not be designed the way you personally like it, but I think the proof is in the pudding: Windows IS easy to use. Even my parents can use it, and they are computer illeterate. Windows has moved onto task based computing - like the task panel in explorer which has easily explained commands in simple view, and wizards, which whatever you think of them are easy understand and use.

I still say the Mac OS X does still require a bit more knowledge to get going - its not as immediately intuitive, even if it is better in the long run.

 

Cough... splutter... Windows more intuitive than OSX? Man, I need to lie down, I must be hallucinating that someone actually wrote that...

Or maybe the aneurysm is taking effect...

 

Paul you are wrong on this I am afraid.

I have a friend called Mandy who in her spare room upstairs has a large windows system, it cost her around £1800 about 3-4 years ago, the reason she got it is because she is a keen photographer and had recently moved to digital SLRs.

In that four years she was to scared to go near it because everytime she did it crashed and warned her about things and bubbles would pop up telling her to update things and and and.

The proof was the fact that there was not one of her images on that PC.

Move forward to 2005 and she saw me setting up a slide show of some recent photos on my mac and setting it to music.

She never said a word to me that day just enjoyed the slide show with my family.

6 months later she declared that she would like a Mac. I questioned her on this and in the end we agreed that an iMac was the way to go, sure enough the following month she had the readies for an 20 inch iMac. Once delivered she fell in love with the look and had part of the down stairs made into her work area, the first bridge was crossed, the computer was good enough for her spotlessly clean house so could be used in the family area.

3 months later and she has imported many thousands of photos, sends me emails and is in the process of creating a DVD.

For all of us here, no big deal. For Mandy, the very concepts of computing were beyond her, and she has said on more than one occasion on the mac its just easier to understand.

The 'halo' effect moves to my Step Dad who is around on Wednesday to ebay a load of stuff so he can get an iMac, this is because he loves to make music, and has been able to play with garage band, he believes this is the most impressive piece of software he has seen because he can use it. This comes as part of OSX.

Anyhow, thats just my little story. To say that a PC is easier to use in not correct, and this is for one single fact:

The OSX Dock.

Everyone I know who I have purchased macs for (And there has been a fair few) say that Dock is a master piece, just drag any application, folder or file there and it will be there when you need it.

Try that with windows.

 

From an article on the internet, seeing as I really cant be bothered retyping what has already been written:-

I've admitted that OSX is the better operating system, yet seemingly, the Apple-ites are too proud to even admit XP is easy to use.

 

It may not be as pretty Gary, but Windows has had that since Windows 95 with IE4 integrated - its called the Quick Launch bar. That idea is probably more than 10 years old!

 

Each one has their idiosyncrasies. A total newbe will probably come across a situation where they need to ask someone or consult the help file on either OS. The key difference is that OS X, largely due to the fact it is not prone to viruses or other attack and having inherently better security, is likely IME to keep running for far longer without problem in the hands of an inexperienced user.

The people here who have campaigned here for RdS to stick with Windows are mostly what I would describe as power users. If they are honest they will probably admit that they have often been asked to sort out their less computer literate friend's PCs. I have lost count of the number of PCs I have been asked to fix or even rebuild from scratch due to virus attack or just general .dll / registry / Plug ‘n’ Play craziness over the years.

A comparatively large proportion of my friends have Macs, and have had for years (many are involved in music in some area, so higher than average Mac take-up). It is very seldom indeed that I am asked to fix a Mac. About four times in 15 years IIRC.

So, should RdS buy a Mac? Yes IMHO.

Tony.

 

garyi - this personal experiences is much more compelling. It's helped me picture the value you've been hinting at. The Mac as a business choice is not an option for us due to the development environments we have to use and I'm not convinced it would be the preferred choice even if it was simply because we are happy with our hardware and with Windows in the last 5 years, but I'm getting a better picture of Macs now.

 

TonyL - yep I do agree with your points regards inexperienced users and PC's vs Macs. It's hard to dispute the fact that Apple offer and support the personal computer as a product.

I do think there is great value out there for PC users, would you not agree that the level of technology Apple can offer has plenty to thank the highly competetive PC market regards R&D and progress?

I realise Apple undertake plenty of R&D themselves, but the "a computer for every man and woman" which is how I perceive the evolution of the PC platform has brought about incredible innovation and price reductions due to its intense competition.

I fear if Apple had become the dominant vendor all those years ago and remained a one stop shop regards hardware and software they may have ultimately been less innovative than they have been, especially in the last few years when their very existence was in jeopardy. It seems this very risk has driven them to produce better for less than some years ago.

 

I agree with you Tony, however be careful - some mac owners might think that you were implying that they are not experienced computer users, and get all offended

 

Paul the fact is I am a mac fan boy, I have never owned a PC in the home, I have used macs in the home since 1990 or there abouts when I had a mac 512ke (512k ram) and twine floppy drives one for the OS (6) and one for which ever app you needed.

I remember from that time all the way until today people saying ths ame old things:

You can get a PC for cheaper
Theres lots more stuff for PCs
Everyone uses PCs
Macs are behind
Macs are slow

And it never bothered me, because every bit of software that anyone could want is there, the MHz stuff to me is like Watts to hifi, its about the whole experience. Macs are not behind it is usually apple that introduce things first, I refer you to USB and Firewire (FW was jointly developed with Mac, although it would appear they are phasing it out which is a shame)

The fact it this argument will run and run. It comes down to this, if you a home or business user who gets along with PCs just fine, and don't mind the looks of them (I dare you to try and argue that point!) and it does what you want when you want, then excellent you are one lucky fellow and continue as you are.

If your experience of PCs is less than good, or if you are not confident with them, fear for your privacy and computer safety and know that if something were to go wrong you would rely on others to fix the problem, then get a Mac.

For the none computer savvy in my expereince the Mac has been a lot better for them, this includes three work friends, my father in law, step brother, brother in Law and three friends. All hated PCs or were scared to turn them on, all own macs, and in the three years or so spanning them purchases I have only ever been asked points on using software not on issues.

If you have never used a computer full stop, then both OSs are going to be very daunting and scary. I don't think any of us could deny that asking someone that has never looked at a computer to goto the menu and click file, and expect them to have a clue what your on about is related to ease of use on any computer!

 

Garyi has some good points above. Me? I am sick to the back teeth of fixing friends' and family members' PCs which have become encrusted with WTDs (that's Windows Transmitted Diseases). I now charge a bottle of cask strength malt whisky from SWMS and I sort their machine out - I disconnect their machines from their broadband, reformat their hard-drive*, install fresh WinXP SP2, Firefox, Zonealarm, AV, hide IE, uninstall Messenger, Outlook Express, install alternative safe Mozilla email client whose name escapes me right now, configure stuff, connect to Windows update, grab all patches, remove Messenger again (f**ker is always reinstalled) and OE if it's returned, install OpenOffice, etc.

All the time advising them that 'next time, take my word for it, buy a Mac'. £350 buys a great, compact, nippy, reliable machine with all the average user will ever need (assuming they keep their PC D/K/M - and that's fine), an OS that resists the WTDs, runs the same software (by this time they'll be entrenched into OpenOffice, Firefox and that email client, and be happy to stick with them), and more importantly gives them the peace of mind that comes from using a stable, reliable and secure platform for their home computing needs.

Me? I'm probably going to have to buy a PC laptop, unless Apple produce a MacBook that will allow dual boot into WXP/Vista. I don't want to run WXP/Vista, but it is a necessary evil given what I do (software architect in the financial sector) and at least that way I would still have my OSX with me...

John

* I advise them to extract any important files to CD/FD/USB drive in advance, and tell them if it ain't done when I get there, it's gone...

 

I think there is a comparison to be made with hifi.

It could be arguned that if you are interested, willing and able that there is greater value hifi out there if you draw from multiple brands, perhaps some diy, perhaps not the best looking and in fact components that look like a dogs dinner when you look at the whole system. A system which the missus might banish from the living room, but a system which is just the way you want it. A system that perhaps makes sweeter music than a single brand, all matching, tested together, neat and tidy and living room friendly one. But perhaps the single brand is a better buy and a better bet in the long run, has better residuals, etc.

I'm not suggesting the Mac isnt an enthusiasts device, far from it, I am acknowledging that the PC is perhaps not the friend of the inexperienced, but for the experienced I feel the PC platform is a good platform.

I'm looking at a neat and tidy piano black metal Antec case, it isnt really shamed by an imac, but it just sits out of the way just screens, keyboard and mouse are visible so the looks thing isnt an issue for me. I know the socket 939 CPU is near state of the art, it is almost silent, I know I can upgrade parts, add hard drives, etc for peanuts. For me it makes lots of sense, but not for everyone.

 

I tend to agree, if I were advicing someone just starting and wanted a computer then prehaps some flavour of mac that suited their asperational life style as glimpsed in the mac adverts in the printed media or as something seen to be used by trendy music makers or media types in cutting edge ch4 offerings. I know you could match the functionality by knocking up a small sff windows box but it might take a bit of thought, not look so cool and not be a mac.

In the end it is coolness, life style and applications (in that order?) that count - so you pays your money and makes your choice.

 

Auric I don't follow your reasoning at all.

For me its, enjoyment>confidence>Product (In this case apple)

I don't like PCs, I find it most disconcerting the amount of things that must be performed to make them safe and I do not feel confident with them.

I know that I can download what I want for instance and to date have never had an issue. I have opened every email sent to me, never an issue, I have ran for weeks and months forgetting the firewall was off, no issue. I have a minimal viruse checker, never found a thing.

etc etc.

The fact macs look the part is an added bonus for sure.

 

Just got a "winfixer" popup message on my PC, which very kindly offered to scan my PC against various threats. So being just a tad cynical, I thought why would anyone offer this for free and googled it and all I could say was ARRRGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! who needs a f***ing PC!!!

Ran some spyware removal tools and found dozens of other threats:grrr:

 

Hey Garyi,

Following on from thread over on PFM about buying a new computer via a company scheme. I jumped in with both feet and put my (wifes ) name down for the iBook. I went into PC World and touched a mac for the very first time this afternoon. Quite a bit different (only one button ! ), but still managed to find my way around. Sod it though, anything that looks that neat can't be too bad, I like the DVD/CD car stereo style slidy slot too, unlike the flimsy drawer that crawls out of the side of my eldest daughters XP lappy, Expect some numpty questions in a few weeks ....

 

Sid you may become tired of the one button thing being a PC convert in which cas any USB mouse will work in it, or wireless mouse.

Hopefully you got the 1 gig of ram option that will be sweet then.

 

Yeah, get as much ram as you can (same rec. for PC) and buy a Logitech mouse. Don't bother with the Apple Mighty Mouse - I have one and I carry it about with me in my daypack every day but never use it, much prefering my (wired) Logitech MX510. The iBook is a sweet bit of kit - very nice, and though the CPU may be getting on a bit, it's still very capable.

 

Is there a "right click" function within OSX that a two button mouse can exploit? Also what about scoll wheels?

Last time I used an iMac I nearly lost the plot within 10 mins with the single button thing.

 

This is what *I* want to know too, as (barring the games issue) this is the ONE big reason I have for loathing Apple Macs...

If a two button mouse works properly in OSX, my next computer will likely be a PS3 and a Mac Mini