Power?

whereas the actives you really have to turn them up to respond, maybe caus they are voiced to be listened to louder.
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One of the things I like about ATCs is that loud or quiet, they sound good. I suspect I listen at lower levels than many here, and the ATCs were the first speaker I'd had here for any length of time that had some real life in them at lower volumes.

I used to run low-powered Sugdens into high efficiency floorstanders, and have now gone the opposite route of lots of power and insensitive speakers. Both approaches seem to offer similar sonic benefits to my ears, it's the systems in between that seem to struggle.

-- Ian
 
The cones must be REALLY heavy, yet the bass isn't huge, sure its there, just not emphasized.
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As you say they must be very heavy, and the cabinets very well damped. You'd think the heavy cones would obscure fine detail and dynamic attack etc. but obviously thats not the case.
 
Originally posted by bottleneck
can you think of ANY standmount that publishes sensitivity figures of 91db or above?

I pointed this out to Living Voice when I was there a couple of weeks ago, and said that I think there is a gap in the market for sensitive standmount speakers of quality... I doubt that much heed will be paid though!
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Good point Chris! :) There certanly were one or two high efficiency standmounters a few years back, but seemingly things have dried up of late. Models I can think of from the recent past with 91db(+) efficiency were any of the single driver DC (dual concentric) based standmounts that Tannoy use to make. Also, some of the single (or multiple) driver Uni-Q standmounts that KEF made were also of high effciency. Also speaking of single drive unit speakers, Rhdeko, a brand I've only ever heard once (at a hi-fi show) and never again had a rather nice speaker which caught my attention once.

There is something you get in terms of immediacy to the sound with high sensitivity speakers, which IMO is very rarely heard and much harder to achieve (if at all) with lower efficiency designs. Having said that, I'm an "in-between" person as I've yet to hear a (very) high efficiency design which doesn't sound mildly coloured to my ears.
 
This (possibly a little self-serving) link from the well respected Ralph Karsten of Atma-sphere may help to explain things.

I also recall reading somewhere that modern transistor amps have evolved they way they have because of major shortcomings in the evolution of dynamic speaker driver technology. I'm sure the resident cone'n'dome experts can shed some light on this...

reg
 
My Copland CTA 401 is only 25 watts,and i had no problem with its power output at all,Ive used it,along with many others using Sonus Faber speakers,it's currently driving some B&W P6 too great effect,but the best it really sings with are some spendors sp100 a match made in heaven sheer bliss,and plenty powerful enough.
 
Although I use the watt or 2, I don't feel it's essential for good quality sound, many occations I've heard 9 watts sound like 200 with ease, again the Border Patrols & Lv stuff sound pretty damn fine, Manley steel heads (best sound I heard to date, after mine ;) ) superb with B&w 805's sigs odd match yep, but the sounded awesome, had 40w to them?.
Horns, can go very loud and dynamic if a little coloured for me, but again not huge power needed, another good sound a Lavvy Ref (45 watter?) Shahinnan stand mounts and a densen xs 400 producing a smart sound too.
I favour the less efficent speaker that needs to be 'told' what going on by a large spherical object amplifier, it the current ability and control that does it for me, Lee Lumley monoblocks were quite passible too, even with the shearwaters, careful matching can yield superb results Wm
 
Originally posted by bottleneck
Of course there are exceptions to this, but Im sure that this is the case for large swathes of standmounts... let me put it like this.... other than the Loth X speaker, can you think of ANY standmount that publishes sensitivity figures of 91db or above?
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Yep - all the Reference 3A standmounts are around 92dB:

See: http://www.reference3a.com/mmdecapo.htm

as an example :)

Michael.
 
Since I own a Lavardin (model IT), 40 odd watter and given the fact that I listen to a lot of organ music, my contribution may be useful.

Gregg: if you want to have it loud during the day and quiet yet accurate during the night, I would recommend the IT.

I matched the Lavardin to some Proac Futures. They work very well together.

My room eats away bass (no, not even a sub helps - it eats the bass at around 50-60 Hz) but I find the Lavardin/proac good. I often listen to Bruckner's Symphonies rather loud. But the beautiful thing of the Lavardin is that (within limits) works as well at full power 2-3 o'clock as it does at very low levels indeed.

Do I miss power? (I used to have a 100 Watter)? In a way, the answer is yes. But I know of no other solid state amplifier that can beat the Lavardin in timbric purity, treble limpidity and transient resolution.

Is it soft sounding? Not at all. It is just clean; you don't hear harshness, and that cleanness may be strange if you are not accustomed to acoustic music live. If you are, odds are that you'll like the Lavardin.

I never listened to anything as uncoloured and pure.
 
Originally posted by michaelab
Yep - all the Reference 3A standmounts are around 92dB:

See: http://www.reference3a.com/mmdecapo.htm

as an example :)

Michael.
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Interesting! nice one mike.

I notice these little 2-way monitors have no crossover.

I bet this is a determining factor in their higher than usual sensitivity.

Im a bit perplexed though... they rate the frequency range as:

Frequency response: 42 Hz. - 20.000 Hz. /3 dB.

Isnt that impossibly low for a small monitor?
If so, would that not throw the accuracy of the sensitivity figures published into question aswell?.. or maybe it could go down that low. What do u think?
 
Originally posted by bottleneck
I notice these little 2-way monitors have no crossover.
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Only the bass unit has no crossover. The tweeter must have at least a capacitor.

This design philosophy is similar to the small EPOS speakers except EPOS don't use carbon fibre. I'm a big fan of carbon fibre drivers :)
Originally posted by bottleneck

Im a bit perplexed though... they rate the frequency range as:

Frequency response: 42 Hz. - 20.000 Hz. /3 dB.

Isnt that impossibly low for a small monitor?
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Not really. Firstly the bass units are 8.25 inch which is quite large for a mini-monitor. Secondly I can think of quite a few other makes who's mini-monitors go lower - Dynaudio and ProAc to name but two that come to mind. The Dyns are rather low in efficiency though.

They look good. Wish I'd had access to them when I was looking for standmounts.
 
Originally posted by sideshowbob
One of the things I like about ATCs is that loud or quiet, they sound good. I suspect I listen at lower levels than many here, and the ATCs were the first speaker I'd had here for any length of time that had some real life in them at lower volumes.


-- Ian
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I have invariably found that 99% of box speakers respond better to a bit of power, they do sound better when driven.
Missions particularly, but others too.

I don't know if its the ear as in fletcher-munson...the curves showing the ears sensitivity to sound at different frequencies.
That is the rationale behind the Jap loudness controls which boost the treble and bass on cheap nasty stuff.
It could be why some small speakers have boosted treble and bass, too.
 
Hi,

I'm another small wattage user. I have used a few sub 10 watts per channel amps. I currently use a Border Patrol single ended amp which is rated at 9 watts. I too use Living Voice speakers. The Avatars OBXs. I also use Impulse horn speakers. I like the low power amp/ high sensitivty speaker approach. I don't find them lacking for my tastes in music. (Some of it bass heavy).

I agree that the amp has got to be able to drive the speakers in question. The quality of the amp, the ease of the load & type of speaker build can make the job easier. Light drivers such as doped paper will require less force to move them, good for subtle changes in the music, but need to be controlled. Horn speakers can go loud with little power but are usually big & can have a certain colouration. Using the Impulse horns, you can detect some coloration but you can get use to it & not notice it.

Most of the music you hear is at very low power, the peaks can draw big power. These peaks can last only a fraction of a second so having a high sensitivty will help to cope with this.

All systems have trade offs. As Robbo has stated it's all down to quality of the equipment & what you are happy with. (Strengths you like & weaknesses you can live with)

SCIDB
 

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