pre+mono or integrated

Gary never had problem with taking apart krell mono's ( up to the 600's), that pretty straight-forward operation.
In which area did you feel JHL's did for you mids, or top?, or maybe you just preffered the JHL's pure and simple
They are not lush or overly rich valve sounding, more transparent and liquid in stock form. did you spot if they were Gen II's? The B/c runs by far and away the best when Bridged, most dealers in the UK don't demonstrate this, although Mr Roberts has been known to do it right.
They are also very picky with mains, that I would say is a area they (belcanto) needs to address, any piece of equipment that has such large gains due to power treatment and rfi mods, should be considered for redeveloping of its PSU array.
It took 12 months and the odd mishap to finally nail come up a decent engineered psu, and trust me here, the surface has only just been stratched with PWM technology, the possibilities are quite limitless, and with more and more companies (mainstreamers too) investing in this, the R & D is being put in and the results are exciting to say the least. Still a way to go yet before its 'soul like', but the promises are starting to be forefilled.
However at its price point (and above) when fed right, it will sing. Just most of the guys who sell them (in the UK), really have no idea how do use them to there full potenial, which is a shame. But hey thats hifi for yer!!!!!
 
Tony

Mr Roberts did the demo for me, the objective for me was to replace my 5 surround monoblocs with a single amp without sacrificing quality in order to cut down on the number of boxes in my system. The demo used a 5 channel Bel Canto but I don't know whether he was bridging channels or not. In terms of sound quality, I like an amp with attack/slam/grip, the Bel Canto reminded me of a valve amp, not my cup of tea I'm afraid.

Perhaps at some point I could get your opinion on upgrades for my Krell's, I took the top off and decided against doing anything myself when I saw just how many caps there were inside.
 
Gary,

Yes, for a B/c to do 5 channels, it would be just stereo amps only one channel bridged (proberly centre), I can see why you wouldn't overly impressed against your JHL's.
For best reults, a Evo 6 six channel unit bridged in 3 channels (Front L/R centre) and a Evo 4 bridged for the rear channels, driven balanced they are chalk and cheese. and their full potential isn't realised until you do this.
I've just put together an a/v package with the B/c's with an AV8/FMJ27/Kef2005/that matching mega centre speaker/and the matching large rear surrounds. Sounds surprising good :)
B/c foundations are in SET's so your analagy is good :)
The Krells, what I ment by 'taking them apart' wasn't phsycially but preformance wise, cap banks eh?, more than one way to skin a goat :)
 
Tony

If it's possible to improve on the Krell's without spending another fortune then I'm all ears as it were. Other amps that I've heard that outperform the ones I've got still have the same blue LED on the front.
 
GaryG said:
Tony

If it's possible to improve on the Krell's without spending another fortune then I'm all ears as it were. Other amps that I've heard that outperform the ones I've got still have the same blue LED on the front.
Click to expand...

Gary Which Krells do you have?

300 FPB's or the 750's?
Do you run them on any isolation?, mains treatments/leads,& what they driving ?
Humm,
Those blue triangle lights again eh?, well as you say, not my cup of tea, though to be fair, I've heard a Krell (stereo amp 600 FPB) this year that didn't sound too bad at all, which given the system it was in, was surprising.
 
Short path can be good, but large pransformer close to low level signal can be bad... Take your choice, I prefer separates, also more flexible, a certain technology in the pre might go much better with a different one on the power, etc... :MILD:
 
wadia-miester said:
Gary Which Krells do you have?

300 FPB's or the 750's?
Do you run them on any isolation?, mains treatments/leads,& what they driving ?
Humm,
Those blue triangle lights again eh?, well as you say, not my cup of tea, though to be fair, I've heard a Krell (stereo amp 600 FPB) this year that didn't sound too bad at all, which given the system it was in, was surprising.
Click to expand...


MDA 300 monoblocs, a few years old now, they double up as central heating in the winter. They each sit on a seperate Mana stand on top of a couple of Sound Stages, fed by Russ Andrew's power leads. Speakers are KEF Reference 4's which sit on Mana Sound Frames. Transport, DAC, Tact RCS and Meridian 518 all sit on a Mana rack on top of eight Sound Stages.


julian2002 said:
gary,
this is a common misconception about a lot of digital volume controls. as the datastream is expanded from 16 to 24 bits with the lower 8 bits combrising either 0's or random dither you can throw them away without effecting the origional data - 8 bits will give you 255 volume increments. also there is the fact that some cdp's / dacs allow adjustment of the output voltage via dip switches (or other methods) which allow 16 / 18 / 20 bit cd players / dacs to stay near the top of their volume range even at low volumes - if you see what i mean.
as with most things in audio there are advantages and compromises in both digital and analog approaches.
cheers
Click to expand...

Ditton

Here's a more technical explanation from the Wadia website:

The Pros and Cons of Digital Volume Control
Removing a traditional preamplifier from your system has undeniable sonic advantages. Indeed, one of the high-ends's fundimental tenets holds that the shorter and simpler the signal path, the purer the sound. But is this sonic advantage offset by the drawbacks of adjusting volume in the digital domain?
All digital volume controls perform mathematical calculation on the digital data representing the analog audio signal. Although complex in practice, it's easy to understand in principle. Reducing the volume in the digital domain is accomplished by multiplying each sample by a number less than one. Let's take the example of decreasing the playback volume by 6 dB. Because 6 dB represents a halving of voltage, every sample is multiplied by 0.5. The samples encode a number that represents the original analog waveform's amplitude at the time the sample was taken. By mutiplying each sample by 0.5, the amplitude of the econstructed analog signal is reduced by half--or 6 dB.

But there's a price to pay for this digital slight-of-hand. Every 6 dB of attenuation reduction in volume) reduced the playback system's resolution by one bit. In other words, a 16-bit signal atenuated in the digital domain by 6 dB now has the resolution of a 15-bit signal. Lower the volume by 12 dB and you have the equivilent of a 14-bit source. Dynamic range is reduced, and the music signal gets closer to the digital noise floor. With fewer bits, low-level signals can become more coarse, particularly at high attenuation levels.

Wadia claims it has mitigated the disadvantages of digital domain volume control by starting out with a 21-bit signal (created from the CD's 16 bits in the digital filter). Losing a little resolution from 21 bits is an acceptable situation, Wadia believes. Second, every Wadia product with digital domain volume control provides variable analog output level via switches inside the unit. Setting these switches gets the CD player's analog output level in the ballpark so that very little digital domain attenuation is required. Third, Wadia sontends that the slight degradation imposed by the digital volume control is vastly less than the effect of an analog preamplifier and a pair of interconnects.
Click to expand...

http://www.wadia.com/products/Product Archive/w850/w850fi.htm
 
Gary,

The Kef's are nice I used to run them. The MDA's? have you got any internal shots of them? close up's etc? if so send me a email, (works one it has a bigger in tray)
Tact and mana? still if it does it for you, fair play sir.
As for the Wadia's digital vol, you can get it so it rather good, a spectral DC30 MKII gave no noticable improvemant to speak of, when slipped into the equation with matching cables, and thats a cracking pre :cool:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Tony

It may well be that there is some super-duper thing out there that is more suited to what I like just waiting for me to discover it. Maybe you guys ought to bring some of your goodies 'round and show me what I'm missing.

I'll take the top off one of the amps and take some pictures.
 
Good stuff Gary :)
We may well do that, when/if it comes back in from loan, as every one so far has been sold, and they are a arkward so in so to do, as are these speakers cables :D any one wanna swop jobs this afternoon :(
 
Gary,

many thanks for the fuller wadia explanation of the digital pre-amp control. I confess that I had no idea of what was involved. Is the upshot that it really does better when it gets louder!! Or conversely, quieter (more attenuation) is lossier - and I take it that this applies to the Dax Decade also.

as you know, I now have to re-read and ponder ...

.. still happy with the path you have led me up though!
 
Peter

Quite frankly, at the volume I listen at it's not a problem, may be different for you. Give David a call at AS to get claification on the impact with the DAX, however, when I auditioned the Chord 3200 pre-amp the the Krell blah blah whatever it was I was happy that the DAX was the right choice for me.
 
cat said:
i`ve got a litle bit bored of the Cyrus sound, you know, a bit flat sounding, not expressing the music, and a restrained depth to the sound, don`t get me wrong i loved it at first but now think i need something better
Click to expand...

I'm in a similar position to some extent - I still have my Cyrus 7 + PSX-R and I do like it, but it is kindof neither here nor there really, plus when pushed it hardens up the sound, though at normal volumes its decent in many respects but excels at none. I have been using two obvious alternatives just to get a feel for my options - 1. Lavardin IS ref, 2. Krell Kav-300i.

I like some aspects of the Lavardin a lot - clear, natural, detailed. I like a some aspects of the Krell - punchy, powerful, dynamic, good imaging. I think with the right speakers the Lavardin is a keeper for quiet nights in - very rewarding, but no party amp. The Krell seems very good value for money (paid c. £900) and is maybe a keeper for playing loud and for parties - it seems very flexible, but at low volumes its not ideal especially that the increments are quite large so it goes from v quiet to pretty loud via a couple of notches up. I'm yet to try a Lavardin IT I hope would be like an IS Ref but with more beef. I considered an EVO2i, but yet to demo or borrow one. The NAD S300 is certainly another candidate, but again one I havent tried. Found WM and Isaacs bake off of the Krell 300i vs the S300 interesting. Both seem v good value for money 2nd hand, but with 1800 you could do somewhat better I guess? :confused:
 
greg said:
Both seem v good value for money 2nd hand, but with 1800 you could do somewhat better I guess? :confused:
Click to expand...


if i sold all my current kit i`d have a budget of around £2700 for ex dem or used cd & amp
 

Latest posts

Back
Top