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According to the manual (available from the ALesis website) they're stereo but can be nridged into mono by the flick of a switch.
Pro Audio PA Amps - Bargains to Be Had?
- Thread starter Uncle Ants
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According to the manual (available from the ALesis website) they're stereo but can be nridged into mono by the flick of a switch.
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The manual for these can be found here:
http://www.dbaudio.com/pub/live/E-PAC_V_2_MANUAL.PDF
But there is a big caution on page 3:
"Only use loudspeakers in the C and E-Series with the P1200A
mainframe fitted with the correct controller modules or with a
correctly configured E-PAC. The contoller monitors cone excursion
and voice coil temperature of the drivers. When loudspeakers are
operated without the correct controller, in addition to losses in
tone, there is a risk of damage to the components. Any defects
arising from operation other than those specified in this manual
will be excluded from any warranty claims."
So I wouldn't go there....
Don't worry, that warning is there to get d&b out of warranty claims for improper use of their amps and speakers. The E-PAC configs are menu driven whereas the P1200 uses hard wired controller modules. The failure rate of d&b drivers is near zero because they sell their rigs as a matched amp and speaker combo's rather than mix-n-match.
I would still be happy with a rockin home system running these amps and a set of d&b's now discontinued E9
http://www.dbaudio.com/pub/live/E9_Manual_3.1EN.PDF
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Cheap parts:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ants
Hmmm ... okay you are stretching my credulity somewhat with that one At that price somethings got to give. What's wrong with them The MC2s - well they are relatively cheap next to the likes of a Bryston pound per watt but they aren't cheap, cheap - it wouldn't be hard to believe they could be the bees knees. A £150 jobbie - is a lot harder to believe you will grant me.
Originally Posted by Tenson
Its easier to believe when you actually meet one, build quality is very good. Its not quite as well built as Krell or Bryston, but it is very good none the less and easily as good as many other amps.
In terms of sound, you have to ask yourself what is actually inside an amp. You have a power supply, a drive stage and a power stage. There isn't much to it. The design of those stages can change things like PSRR and distortion but its well known how to minimize these and design an amp with less than 0.01% THD+N these days. You don't need fancy components if you have a solid reliable design. The difference with audiophile amps is in the scale of manufacturing and the quality of casework - though that isn't bad on the Alesis. Or they use some rather poor design that adds 'character' to the sound.
Cheap parts seem to be a bit of a problem with these cheap amps. There are no end of complaints regarding caps but more particularly relays; Chinese manufacture; in Alesis and others. It would also seem that many users are experiencing very poor feedback from the company with regard to these enquiries and e-mails are either being ignored or if answered "send it in for $100 service"
As a manufacturer of "hi-fi quality loudspeakers" amongst other things, do you only use "fit for purpose" components? Would you be able to reduce the price of them still further if you went with the cheapest components you could get hold of as long as they were "fit for purpose" A good design surely will benefit from good components. It's well known that almost every amp ever built commercially would benefit from better components but a cost/profit ratio has to be maintained.
There however exists the "fit for purpose" components that only just pass muster, ie. it will pass a signal because it's electrically conductive but can't be relied on in the long term. Then there are the better than average components that most hi-fi manufacturers strive to use where cost constraints allow.
We then get into the realms of the tweakers and upgrade companies. They offer the best and "most suitable for the purpose" grade of components. At premium prices they are able to transform a good design into a great one.
I was considering pro audio power amps but what I've read has really put me off. When several users state that they would never buy this or that companies products again because of poor customer relations, it leads me to believe that there was not enough left in the budget to deal with aftersales problems. A simple reply to a problem enquiry costs nothing but ignore at your peril.
Originally Posted by Uncle Ants
Hmmm ... okay you are stretching my credulity somewhat with that one At that price somethings got to give. What's wrong with them The MC2s - well they are relatively cheap next to the likes of a Bryston pound per watt but they aren't cheap, cheap - it wouldn't be hard to believe they could be the bees knees. A £150 jobbie - is a lot harder to believe you will grant me.
Originally Posted by Tenson
Its easier to believe when you actually meet one, build quality is very good. Its not quite as well built as Krell or Bryston, but it is very good none the less and easily as good as many other amps.
In terms of sound, you have to ask yourself what is actually inside an amp. You have a power supply, a drive stage and a power stage. There isn't much to it. The design of those stages can change things like PSRR and distortion but its well known how to minimize these and design an amp with less than 0.01% THD+N these days. You don't need fancy components if you have a solid reliable design. The difference with audiophile amps is in the scale of manufacturing and the quality of casework - though that isn't bad on the Alesis. Or they use some rather poor design that adds 'character' to the sound.
Cheap parts seem to be a bit of a problem with these cheap amps. There are no end of complaints regarding caps but more particularly relays; Chinese manufacture; in Alesis and others. It would also seem that many users are experiencing very poor feedback from the company with regard to these enquiries and e-mails are either being ignored or if answered "send it in for $100 service"
As a manufacturer of "hi-fi quality loudspeakers" amongst other things, do you only use "fit for purpose" components? Would you be able to reduce the price of them still further if you went with the cheapest components you could get hold of as long as they were "fit for purpose" A good design surely will benefit from good components. It's well known that almost every amp ever built commercially would benefit from better components but a cost/profit ratio has to be maintained.
There however exists the "fit for purpose" components that only just pass muster, ie. it will pass a signal because it's electrically conductive but can't be relied on in the long term. Then there are the better than average components that most hi-fi manufacturers strive to use where cost constraints allow.
We then get into the realms of the tweakers and upgrade companies. They offer the best and "most suitable for the purpose" grade of components. At premium prices they are able to transform a good design into a great one.
I was considering pro audio power amps but what I've read has really put me off. When several users state that they would never buy this or that companies products again because of poor customer relations, it leads me to believe that there was not enough left in the budget to deal with aftersales problems. A simple reply to a problem enquiry costs nothing but ignore at your peril.
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Prices in general often go up a bit at the beginning of the year. This year, because of the euro/pound/dollar situation, many consumer electronic items have just or are just about (from tomorrow) to rocket 15-30%. Nothing to do with fora chat.
bottleneck
talks a load of rubbish
Yeah, I've been speaking to a component manufacturer I know - they make high end capacitors etc.
UK is set to see a 15% price hike on parts, just due to £ vs Euro at the moment.
Now is the best time to buy parts from non UK manufactured components if you are about to re-cap a product for example. Wait a few months I doubt the price will be the same.... unless you are lucky!
UK is set to see a 15% price hike on parts, just due to £ vs Euro at the moment.
Now is the best time to buy parts from non UK manufactured components if you are about to re-cap a product for example. Wait a few months I doubt the price will be the same.... unless you are lucky!
Haselsh1
Shaun H
Whilst on the subject of Alesis RA500's turned into monoblocks, you have to be very careful, once mono'd they cannot drive effectively below 8Ohms.
Hi,
I am still running one in my second system and it works perfectly. No break downs or anything. their support was also very quick to reply when I asked for a full service manual as I wanted to see if I could do some mods. You will always get some complaints from people when you look at a company selling on this scale, but I think Alesis is rather good in this respect all things considered. Anyway, if it goes wrong then buy another!
At the end of the day its a £150 amp. It sound Far better than it has any right to and it is pretty well built and seems reliable. Sure it could sound a fraction better if it had more money spent on the parts but its really not bad.
The same argument can be put to nearly any product, as there is always something else more 'high-end'.
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So what about a pre-amp?
I am assuming almost any hi-fi pre-amp or indeed the pre part of an integrated could be used? Any recommendations ? What of the warning re: using in monoblock configuration and not driving well below 8 Ohm? When switched into mono block config. does either/or volume control operate?
I am assuming almost any hi-fi pre-amp or indeed the pre part of an integrated could be used? Any recommendations ? What of the warning re: using in monoblock configuration and not driving well below 8 Ohm? When switched into mono block config. does either/or volume control operate?
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Further increase
They are now £200.00 amps as the price has just gone up over £50.00. Haven't they seen the sale ads. everywhere? Whether raw material cost or currency fluctuation, in a financial situation such as we are experiencing, a 25% increase will just decrease sales.
They are now £200.00 amps as the price has just gone up over £50.00. Haven't they seen the sale ads. everywhere? Whether raw material cost or currency fluctuation, in a financial situation such as we are experiencing, a 25% increase will just decrease sales.
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Behringer A500
Looks to be identical and is still below £150.00, is this just rebadged?
Looks to be identical and is still below £150.00, is this just rebadged?
The Behringer is completely different, not to mention less powerful. Its more like the Alesis RA300.
If you want to monoblock then yes, you need a speaker with an impedance minimum that doesn't drop below 6 Ohms.
When in mono-block mode only one volume control does the job, but I'd recommend bypassing it since the pot isn't that high quality I expect they are not well matched on each amp. Personally I also bypass the input gain stage since I don't find I need that much gain and it takes an op-amp out of the signal path. It seems to make it a little warmer sounding. I also took the DC servo out the loop to remove yet another 2 op-amps from the signal path and replaced the coupling cap with a nice polyprop. All these things bring it that bit closer to the performance of a really top quality amp.
If you don't fancy doing any of that I'm happy to do the changes for you for a small fee, send me a PM or something.
If you want to monoblock then yes, you need a speaker with an impedance minimum that doesn't drop below 6 Ohms.
When in mono-block mode only one volume control does the job, but I'd recommend bypassing it since the pot isn't that high quality I expect they are not well matched on each amp. Personally I also bypass the input gain stage since I don't find I need that much gain and it takes an op-amp out of the signal path. It seems to make it a little warmer sounding. I also took the DC servo out the loop to remove yet another 2 op-amps from the signal path and replaced the coupling cap with a nice polyprop. All these things bring it that bit closer to the performance of a really top quality amp.
If you don't fancy doing any of that I'm happy to do the changes for you for a small fee, send me a PM or something.
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Behringer A500
Made in China I presume but it is being quoted as 160 p.c. into 8 ohms, so a little more on tap than the Alesis A500?
Not so keen on hearing that the volume pots are cheap and presumably nasty.
Made in China I presume but it is being quoted as 160 p.c. into 8 ohms, so a little more on tap than the Alesis A500?
Not so keen on hearing that the volume pots are cheap and presumably nasty.
The Alesis is a much bigger amp, and the power transformer fills the full height of the case. The Behrigner is half the height and so I can only assume the power transformer is half the size. The heatsinks also are half the size so all this suggest to me that the Alesis is more realistically the power it claims, or at least has more on tap for dynamic peaks.
The volume pots are not that great quality but so what, just bypass them with a little bit of wire. This is not an integrated amp, they are not volume controls; it's just to set the input gain. So unless you are trying to use the amp in a multi-amped system where the level of each amp needs to be set separately then they have no use. Anyway use them if you want, I'm only saying they are probably not that well matched from one channel to the other or from one amp to the other. I doubt the Behrigner is any better.
Just buy the Alesis, you can't go wrong.
The volume pots are not that great quality but so what, just bypass them with a little bit of wire. This is not an integrated amp, they are not volume controls; it's just to set the input gain. So unless you are trying to use the amp in a multi-amped system where the level of each amp needs to be set separately then they have no use. Anyway use them if you want, I'm only saying they are probably not that well matched from one channel to the other or from one amp to the other. I doubt the Behrigner is any better.
Just buy the Alesis, you can't go wrong.
Just to add another voice to the Pro Amps are great camp I today picked up a MC2 T500 for £220 used from a Pro Audio dealer and its fantastic. I am using it with my recently acquired PMC TB1s which also blow my old Monitor Audio S8's out of the water.
At this rate I will be replacing all my kit with Pro Stuff.
I could have got a MC650 for 450 plus vat but didn't have the available kit. If anyone is intrested drop me a PM and I will put you in contact.
Paul
At this rate I will be replacing all my kit with Pro Stuff.
I could have got a MC650 for 450 plus vat but didn't have the available kit. If anyone is intrested drop me a PM and I will put you in contact.
Paul
Paul welcome to the MC2 club-
(£220 is dirt cheap-I'd recommend giving the inside a thorough clean.)Cooky
Hi Cooky
I was really pleased with price and very happy to join the MC2 club. I am currently tempted to take it to next year Wigwam event. I have suitable bits to open up the case in the post and will give it a clean over the weekend. The front and rear are clean so I might not have much to do although that doesn't matter as I always like to have look(power cable unplugged) inside kit anyway.
Flap
I was really pleased with price and very happy to join the MC2 club. I am currently tempted to take it to next year Wigwam event. I have suitable bits to open up the case in the post and will give it a clean over the weekend. The front and rear are clean so I might not have much to do although that doesn't matter as I always like to have look(power cable unplugged) inside kit anyway.
Flap
Mixers as pre-amps
Hi
Has anyone used a pro mixer as a pre-amp for example one of the Allen and Heath, Mackie or Spirit Folio mixers. I thinking about giving one a try both as something a bit different and also that you can pick up these under £150 and sometimes a lot less.
Paul
Hi
Has anyone used a pro mixer as a pre-amp for example one of the Allen and Heath, Mackie or Spirit Folio mixers. I thinking about giving one a try both as something a bit different and also that you can pick up these under £150 and sometimes a lot less.
Paul
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You should have to try the ZED series mixers from Allen and Heath. It has a quite nice D/A converter and an USB audio input built-in too, works quite well and sounds nice with my MC1250 and Danley SH 100B speakers at home too.
Look out for a Soundcraft Compact 10 or 4. They have stereo inputs, with will make it easier to get good balance between the channels. The 10 also has a photo input I think. I don't think the sound quality of these budget mixers is on the same level as a good pre-amp, but it should rival most pre-amp in the same price range and offer some cool tricks. You could use the parametric EQ to tame room modes for example.
