prog prog

You are not alone

Still can't decide my favorite Yes album. It would be one of these three...

Fragile
Relayer
The Yes Album

 

i managed to find a copy of the live album 'fanfare' in mvc for a fiver a day or so ago, so i've now got enough elp to keep me going. not heard relayer but definite favorite of the other two is the yes abum. other favorite in a similar vein is rush's 2112.
cheers


julian

 

Well I hope Lord(summit) managed to capture both the "prog" and "Rock Family Trees" programmes that were on the other night, seeing as Yes was also featured very promiently in the family tree thing as well, Lee will be in for a treat if he hasn't seen the later before.

 

I take a very similar view with Yes as I do with Floyd – the early ones definitely have something to them, the later ones are execrable. Here is my blaggers guide to Yes:

The first self titled Yes album has some really nice lightweight pop-psychedelica on it. Along with the next two is the only stuff I'd even half admitting to like in a crowded room. I've got a nice red-plum label first press of this.

Time and a word has a interesting late 60s hippy / psyche feel / emerging prog feel with some great dirty Hammond organ in parts. Its got a very 'up' and optimistic feel.

The Yes album is a good early 1970 prog album. It manages to be adventurous without disappearing up its butt.

After the above things took a huge dive!

IMHO the rot started with Fragile which is ruined by the appallingly self indulgent solo pieces and Wakeman's horrible pseudo classical doodlings throughout. Rick Wakeman comes across as a thoroughly nice chap with a lot of intelligent and generally sarcastic comments about the world. He is a guy who would make great company in a pub. He is however IMHO an appallingly pretentious keyboard player, arguably even more pretentious than Emerson. If you are ever put in a position where someone offers to play you any Wakeman solo albums simply stick your fingers in your ears and shout 'la la la la' really loud – please believe me, this is good advice.

Close to the edge is absolutely hysterical (in a reallybad way) the pretentious start stop nonsense with added opera of the title track is only made more ridiculous by the horrific church organ that appears for absolutely no reason in the middle. Truly painful, though capable of reducing me to fits of laughter. Thankfully I can't remember the two tracks on side 2. Middle age memory loss actually has a lot to be said for it.

Yessongs: Three LP set of live and often quite raw and sloppy renditions of tracks from the above. IMHO quite ropy in parts, but a few people I know rate it as their best.

Tales from topographic oceans is actually quite surprising in hindsight; amazingly it has worn the best of their later work, as long as the vocals are ignored, as obviously all Yes vocals should be. Parts of it sound almost Krautrock-ish, obviously not as good, but it still surprised me when I accidentally played it a while back (god knows how one can accidentally play an album, but I'll think up an excuse if necessary). Parts of it sound like complete bollocks, but that shouldn't come as a truly amazing revelation.

Relayer: Just bollocks really. Whenever I have heard it the question 'why?' pops into my mind – it's a hell of a lot of effort for apparently no reason.

Going for the one: I haven't heard this since about 1980 so can't really comment.

Tomato: Bollocks.

Anything later is either bollocks or technically by the band Buggles (who are also bollocks).

Hope this helps

Tony.

 

tony,
you're doing a remarkably good impression of john peel there.
cheers


julian

 

Bill burford Bollox drummer second rate, handy with his fists though some some redemption there
Tales from topolgraphic oceans, biggest load of self indeulgent dross yet devised pure crass
Asia were much better, saw them twice in 82, acceptable face of grown up prog

 

I bought Fragile (very cheap in a sale, I must add) as I thought 'Roundabout' was quite nice. The second track is a 'Wakeman' instrumental and, in a word, it is shocking.

 

That statement simply doesn't work on any level. There is absolutely nothing in existence on the entire planet earth that Asia were better than.

'Very cheap in a sale' is indeed the only way to buy Yes. Roundabout and Heart of the sunrise are worth listening to at least once, the rest of the grooves should be scraped off the record, placed into a sealed capsule and shot in to the sun.

Tony.

 

A little harsh I feel. If you get into them there is some awesome playing on their albums and some cracking songs. Closer to the edge, Going for the one, and the Anderson, Bruford Wakeman and Howe albums are well worth a listen.

Besides Rick Wakeman is a city fan, I'm duty bound to stick up for him!

 

Asia, were actually pretty fair, as king crimson achieves 'God like' status among flat eathers, it speaks volumes for they prefered style of torture (in a non music snob way of coarse)

 

Asia produced the kind of ultra bland AOR that is perfectly suited to a less demanding lift installation. AOR is the only musical form yet devsied that has absolutely no redeeming features whatsoever - unchallenging session-muso blandness for 1980s bankers…

Tony.

PS KC were all right!

 

Not actually heard any of the ABWH stuff at all, or any of the much later Yes stuff.

The reason I like some of the ELP stuff is for the rocked up classical bits, or bits where their classical training is showing through like in what a lot of folk have dismissed as the pretentiously long solos - but hey I'm sucker for a lot classical concertos with it being my fave classical form.

 

Good to see people still lsitening to prog. Anyone know PFM or Focus?

 

i've just been listening to some ozric tentacles (would you say they are prog?) and i'm now listening to camel, may have a listen to some gong next although just saying their name has cowed my enthusiasm a bit....
cheers


julian

 

I'd say that Ozrics are a after the fact revisionist version of either stoner or spacerock rather than prog – i.e. their heritage is early Hawkwind, 68-71 Floyd, or even Steve Hillage rather than the classically trained rigidity of Yes or ELP. It always annoys me when people class spacerock bands under prog, they aren't, there is none of the emphasis on gratuitous musicianship or flamboyance in this music at all. Early Hawkwind (first four albums only, the rest is pretty crap) is true pre-punk minimalism with no solos or distractions at all. Totally un-prog, and probably represents the closest the UK got to the pure genius that was Krautrock.

Gong are something totally different again, and it is similarly unfair to fling them in the prog wheelie-bin. They took more from jazz and folk than any other genres, just combining it with the rather stronger and stranger spacerock medication that was available at the time.

Tony.

 

Just catching here.

Regarding Yes, I do think that 'The Yes Album' is there best, but I do really like Fragile as well. It feels less of a band album and is drenched by Rick's keyboards, but I still like it a lot. The period from 1980 to 1998 was pretty dire, with a great deal of arguing over the Yes name. However they managed to put things behind them and are together touring as pretty much the Fragile era band with White instead of Bruford.

Now mentioning Bruford I think he is an excellent drummer for the style of music he does. By his own admission he can't do 4/4 and is a lot more comfortable doing wierd time signatures. Saw him last year and the whole band were fantastic.

I've seen Bruford with King Crimson a couple of times and feel the muscular drumming of Pat Mastelotto fits better. My favourite period was when Bruford and Belew were in them, awesome.

PFM - Premiata Forneria Marconi did some really nice symphony prog and are still going. There is a rumoured tour this year.

Focus still doing it as well but trying to find info is really hard. Their home site is http://www.officialfocushomepage.nl/startfocus.htm and I discovered it too late and missed their tour last year. Jan Akkerman is doing his own stuff and I really like it.

There is plenty of prog out there and with so many various subclasses there should be something for everyone (even Opera Prog and I don't mean Zuul) why not join the club http://groups.yahoo.com/group/e-Prog/ very active but lots of info about bands you would never have come across.

 

Aha, another Crimson fan!
I actually prefer Bruford to Mastelotto. I find the latter a bit too bombastic. I think Fripp, Belew, Levin and Bruford were the classic line up. I know it's not prog but does anyone else like the work Fripp has done with David Sylvian? Sorry for going OT.
Andrew

 

Andrew
Between my brother and myself we have everything Japan and Sylvian did a few times over. I think I've got Brilliant Trees 3 times (original cd/WeatherBox/Remastered - no 4 times as it came as a double with Gone to Earth). I missed the 88 tour (my brother didn't) but have caught him on everyone since. The gig at the RAH with KC in 93 was really good and Sylvian was offered the permanent job as vocalist but he wanted to remain independent.

So I suppose you could say I am a Sylvian fans. If you want to join a good mailing list look here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/japan-pioneers/

As for KC, I agree with you re the line up, 'Elephant Talk' what a great song. I though Trey Gunn did well as an alternative bassist and have quite a few of his cd's. And getting back to Sylvian, I always thought Mick Karn was a very underrated bassist and have caught him a couple of times live. He has a new album and a rumoured tour this year.

 

and...

38 minutes 53 seconds

Now look what you guys have done - forced me to go back and listen to my 2 CDs (1 each) of ELP and Yes. I really quite like that "Fanfare", although it's not a patch on the real thing. I really do like the Copland "Hoedown" though.

If you want piss-poor though, their "Jerusalem" really takes the biscuit.

As for "Yes", I guess I've always liked them more in theory than practice. I guess my problem is that it's all a bit samey, with not a lot of light and shade. But my biggest problem with them is that irritating tuneless wail that is Jon Anderson's voice (although he's tolerable when just adding colour to a chorus).

After all that, I'm now enjoying "Atom Heart Mother" more than I have ever before - sheer quality (in comparison ).

I really enjoyed the History of Prog and Yes Family Tree progs - I think I've seen parts of them before. Best bits were the interviews with Wakeman and Bruford, and their somewhat caustic comments. Wakeman commenting on his first rehersal with them, being rather taken aback when at a disagreement over some musical point Bruford leapt up and thumped Squires - "eventually I realised this was just par for the course!".

 

Quote
"After all that, I'm now enjoying "Atom Heart Mother" more than I have ever before - sheer quality (in comparison )."
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"Marmalade, I like Marmalade" - pure genius!! AHM is a quality Floyd album.

Not sure about this not liking ELP being displayed by lots of people. Just listened to the 2nd side of the 1970 self titled ELP album, and cant really fault it to be honest. All prog's a bit pompus IMHO, but surley this makes it better!

Gong - sounds more like "free form acid jazz-folk" (with the emphasis on the ACID), to me. Have never heard anything quite like Gong, (except maybe Soft Machine). I was lucky enough to get Camembert Electrique on Vinyl, (saves making do with a CD best of), and I think its Brilliant.

Is early genesis prog, I reckon so? I'm talkin before the evil C*ll*ns (not allowed to say that name in my house) took over - but he seemed like a good drummer on the early stuff.