Record deck.......im going around in circles!!
- Thread starter GPC
- Start date
SCIDB
Moderator
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2003
- Messages
- 2,501
- Reaction score
- 2
Hi GPC,
Many moons I wrote started to write a piece on turntables. Here is a link to it.
http://forum.hifichoice.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=6467
This will give you a pointer to some of your questions.
Have a read & get back to with any more questions.
SCIDB
Many moons I wrote started to write a piece on turntables. Here is a link to it.
http://forum.hifichoice.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=6467
This will give you a pointer to some of your questions.
Have a read & get back to with any more questions.
SCIDB
Last edited by a moderator:
penance
Arrogant Cock
Greg,
a cartridge can cost 1000's
Phono stage --
A cartridge puts out a lower signal than other audio ancillaries (IE CDp), A moveing coil puts out less than a moveing magnet. A phono stage takes this signal, adjusts it for the iriaa standard (lots of info online) and boosts it to a level that a line input on an amp can handle. Some amps have a built in Phono stage but less so these days and so a phono stage is required to use a turntable. Also the advantage is that you can find the phono stage you like as opposes to being stuck with a built in one. I built my own valve phono stage wich i am very happy with, but there are many on the market rangeing from around £50 to the mortgage territory.
If i was you i wouldnt worry to much on the phono stage at the moment unless your amp doesnt have a phono inp[ut.
as for sound of vinyl, a lot of factors here. Arm/cartridge combo, setup, type of deck (suspended/mass loaded) and others, this all plays a roll in how the deck can sound.
a cartridge can cost 1000's
Phono stage --
A cartridge puts out a lower signal than other audio ancillaries (IE CDp), A moveing coil puts out less than a moveing magnet. A phono stage takes this signal, adjusts it for the iriaa standard (lots of info online) and boosts it to a level that a line input on an amp can handle. Some amps have a built in Phono stage but less so these days and so a phono stage is required to use a turntable. Also the advantage is that you can find the phono stage you like as opposes to being stuck with a built in one. I built my own valve phono stage wich i am very happy with, but there are many on the market rangeing from around £50 to the mortgage territory.
If i was you i wouldnt worry to much on the phono stage at the moment unless your amp doesnt have a phono inp[ut.
as for sound of vinyl, a lot of factors here. Arm/cartridge combo, setup, type of deck (suspended/mass loaded) and others, this all plays a roll in how the deck can sound.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2003
- Messages
- 510
- Reaction score
- 0
I would say that if you have a little bit of vinyl and are looking to start down this winding road get a Rega P3 with a decent MM cartridge and a Rega fono phono stage if you need one. It will be less agro all round, sound good and not be too expensive..
At this point I'll had my pennys worth.
I started with a Project Debut II in Piano Black - £130 it looked the business - just to see if I really wanted a vinyl system. Initially I used a Porject phono box (£40) this suited the deck quite well. I then upgraded to a MF X-LPS which improved things alot. I now have a Project RPM6 (£350) with an Ortofon MC15 cart (£118).
I used to have a CD6000OSE which I found to be very dynamic and digital. You may well find that the vinyl sound is too different. I'd go for a Project as like others here I prefer to "plug it in and play" I can't be doing with all the tweaking. Also for a first deck I'd also stick with a good MM cart rather than a cheap MC - the MM is likely to be more dynamic and funky and therefore closer to the sound of the Marantz.
Depending on budget - for about £300 I'd go for a Project RPM4 with Ortofon 520 and a Project Phono box. If you're going upto the £500 mark you really need to have a listen to a few. Less that £300 try the Project 1 Expression which has a carbon fibre arm and includes a 520 cart with the phono box. and at the bottom of the budget the Debut II. I wouldn't bother with the phono version - just get a phono box so you can upgrade it later if you want. Initially you could use the built in phono stage of your amp but the project phono box for £40 is likely to be worth the outlay.
As you can tell I haven't much experience of other manufacturers and to be fair the Regas look good for the money but I don't think they come with cartridges so you need to set them up - at least you can get the cart you want. I don't have a local dealer so had to rely on setting things up myself!
Happy hunting.
Donut
PS make sure you get yourself a Disco Antistat to clean your vinyl - well worth the £40 outlay
I started with a Project Debut II in Piano Black - £130 it looked the business - just to see if I really wanted a vinyl system. Initially I used a Porject phono box (£40) this suited the deck quite well. I then upgraded to a MF X-LPS which improved things alot. I now have a Project RPM6 (£350) with an Ortofon MC15 cart (£118).
I used to have a CD6000OSE which I found to be very dynamic and digital. You may well find that the vinyl sound is too different. I'd go for a Project as like others here I prefer to "plug it in and play" I can't be doing with all the tweaking. Also for a first deck I'd also stick with a good MM cart rather than a cheap MC - the MM is likely to be more dynamic and funky and therefore closer to the sound of the Marantz.
Depending on budget - for about £300 I'd go for a Project RPM4 with Ortofon 520 and a Project Phono box. If you're going upto the £500 mark you really need to have a listen to a few. Less that £300 try the Project 1 Expression which has a carbon fibre arm and includes a 520 cart with the phono box. and at the bottom of the budget the Debut II. I wouldn't bother with the phono version - just get a phono box so you can upgrade it later if you want. Initially you could use the built in phono stage of your amp but the project phono box for £40 is likely to be worth the outlay.
As you can tell I haven't much experience of other manufacturers and to be fair the Regas look good for the money but I don't think they come with cartridges so you need to set them up - at least you can get the cart you want. I don't have a local dealer so had to rely on setting things up myself!
Happy hunting.
Donut
PS make sure you get yourself a Disco Antistat to clean your vinyl - well worth the £40 outlay
Last edited by a moderator:
bottleneck
talks a load of rubbish
Hi
I used to have a Musical Fidelity E100 amp. It cost I seem to recall £600, about 8 years ago.
The inbuilt phono stage was DIRE.
Id reccomend borrowing a rega phono stage from your hifi shop (or equivelant model) just to see if your inbuilt phono stage is ok, or if its crappy. You will soon see, and believe me IF its like my old MF one, it was so bad it made any TT sound absolutely tripe.
NB You will know if you have a phono stage because you will have inputs on the back of your amp labelled ''Phono'' - if you dont have this, you havent got a phono stage and you will need one anyway.
Project phono stages start around £50, Rega ones start around £100..
I used to have a Musical Fidelity E100 amp. It cost I seem to recall £600, about 8 years ago.
The inbuilt phono stage was DIRE.
Id reccomend borrowing a rega phono stage from your hifi shop (or equivelant model) just to see if your inbuilt phono stage is ok, or if its crappy. You will soon see, and believe me IF its like my old MF one, it was so bad it made any TT sound absolutely tripe.
NB You will know if you have a phono stage because you will have inputs on the back of your amp labelled ''Phono'' - if you dont have this, you havent got a phono stage and you will need one anyway.
Project phono stages start around £50, Rega ones start around £100..
Lt Cdr Data
om
I have to say donut, I like that ortofon mc15, too, great for the cash.
Bub..what about an advert in the lonely hearts...
guy with big dick seeks girl with big mouth?
Bub..what about an advert in the lonely hearts...
guy with big dick seeks girl with big mouth?
domfjbrown
live & breathe psy-trance
Blimey - I'm lucky to get a CD off my parents for a crimbo present....
THANK CHRIST it's not JUST me that hated the Debut II on hearing - I owned one for 1 day and took it back in disgust - how the hell this could have got a good review is beyond me! Funny thing is my mate's Debut (original) sounds amazing for the price - so something's rotten in Denmark...
Hey - that's my first incarnation of my Rega Planar 3 - it kicked ass! I'm now up to an Ortofon 540 (having gone via, and broken, a Dynavector 10x4 Gold - which was the BUSINESS until the cantilever left home
).
To turn that on its head, after hearing an entry level Planar 3 (mine!), I couldn't have lived with the seller's totally maxed out Linn. NO joke - it was crap in comparison in the musicality stakes - don't believe ALL the hype around the LP12, people... There are SOME good sounding ones out there though
The Disco Antistat is a guaranteed good investment - I use one weekly to good effect - saved several "unplayable" records...
THANK CHRIST it's not JUST me that hated the Debut II on hearing - I owned one for 1 day and took it back in disgust - how the hell this could have got a good review is beyond me! Funny thing is my mate's Debut (original) sounds amazing for the price - so something's rotten in Denmark...
Hey - that's my first incarnation of my Rega Planar 3 - it kicked ass! I'm now up to an Ortofon 540 (having gone via, and broken, a Dynavector 10x4 Gold - which was the BUSINESS until the cantilever left home
).To turn that on its head, after hearing an entry level Planar 3 (mine!), I couldn't have lived with the seller's totally maxed out Linn. NO joke - it was crap in comparison in the musicality stakes - don't believe ALL the hype around the LP12, people... There are SOME good sounding ones out there though
The Disco Antistat is a guaranteed good investment - I use one weekly to good effect - saved several "unplayable" records...
amazingtrade
Mad Madchestoh fan
This might sound a silly question but did you remove the transit screws on the suspension? If not thats why the Project II sounded naff
domfjbrown
live & breathe psy-trance
Originally posted by amazingtrade
This might sound a silly question but did you remove the transit screws on the suspension? If not thats why the Project II sounded naff
Yep, I certainly did - AND I also put that weight and tackle thingy on the antiskate control - I don't like the design of that at all to be honest - very VERY fiddly...
Slaphead
Lurking less
I'll jump to the Debuts defence here:-
1) It's cheap - It ain't no Michell, Roksan etc. For the money it's a damn fine player and will get you into vinyl, but, you get what you pay for.
2) Despite it's claim of being factory setup I would seriously advise that anybody buying one of these to check the tracking force and alignment before using it. It comes with tracking force balance and alignment protractor so there's no excuses for not doing the checks. And please do remove the transit bolts.
This method of antiskate is IMHO probably the most reliable and consistant due to it's simplicity. A lot of highend arms use this method including, I believe most if not all unipivots.
This TT is ideal for anybody who wants to dip their toe into vinyl without spending a fortune. Should you enjoy it (or hate it) so much that you want to upgrade (or bin it and throw away your vinyl) you'll have very little trouble selling the debut.
1) It's cheap - It ain't no Michell, Roksan etc. For the money it's a damn fine player and will get you into vinyl, but, you get what you pay for.
2) Despite it's claim of being factory setup I would seriously advise that anybody buying one of these to check the tracking force and alignment before using it. It comes with tracking force balance and alignment protractor so there's no excuses for not doing the checks. And please do remove the transit bolts.
This method of antiskate is IMHO probably the most reliable and consistant due to it's simplicity. A lot of highend arms use this method including, I believe most if not all unipivots.
This TT is ideal for anybody who wants to dip their toe into vinyl without spending a fortune. Should you enjoy it (or hate it) so much that you want to upgrade (or bin it and throw away your vinyl) you'll have very little trouble selling the debut.
Last edited by a moderator:
amazingtrade
Mad Madchestoh fan
I bought mine on a whim, I had £120 to spend on HIFI and all the turntbales I owned before have been £10 plastic carboot sale ones. I thought it would be a good investment and it has been. CD is still my main format but only by 60/40. I own around 50 LPs now, most of them have been bought in the last year, I also have access to my parents record collection of well in excess of 200 LPS.
If I bought all that on CD it would cost em £1000's. The Project II is good enough to scare similary priced CD players if the pressing is good.
My parents have a Yamaha deck and the Project clearly is much better in terms of sound.
If I bought all that on CD it would cost em £1000's. The Project II is good enough to scare similary priced CD players if the pressing is good.
My parents have a Yamaha deck and the Project clearly is much better in terms of sound.
As I said, I'm more than willing to believe I heard a couple of duff ones, and I'm absolutely delighted if people like their t/t. It didn't work for me, but then again, who am I to judge? A P3 vs an RPM4 with the same cartridge was like night and day.
If it makes the right noises (for you) and allows you to enjoy the music, that's all that matters. It (the Debut) didn't for me (I remembered my old Rotel RP-830 as being much better), so I went up a notch in price/quality. If it had chucked out the music as well as my previous deck, I'd have got one, no question.
If it makes the right noises (for you) and allows you to enjoy the music, that's all that matters. It (the Debut) didn't for me (I remembered my old Rotel RP-830 as being much better), so I went up a notch in price/quality. If it had chucked out the music as well as my previous deck, I'd have got one, no question.
domfjbrown
live & breathe psy-trance
I'm pretty sure my deck was a duffer as well - they'd not use the demo one in the shop to compare... Grrr... Bloody Sevenoaks - last time I buy in there.
I tell you what though - I miss my £5 Freeads Dual 1229. So the idler wheel was a bit worn and the stacking/auto mech was knackered (I prefer manual anyway!) but it did bass like no other turntable I've heard - at least in my rig. The first thing I played on it was the 7inch of "The sun goes down" by Level 42 and it kicked ass...
Roll on a Garrard 401 when funds allow Got the good arm and just need a plinth and the deck now...
I tell you what though - I miss my £5 Freeads Dual 1229. So the idler wheel was a bit worn and the stacking/auto mech was knackered (I prefer manual anyway!) but it did bass like no other turntable I've heard - at least in my rig. The first thing I played on it was the 7inch of "The sun goes down" by Level 42 and it kicked ass...
Roll on a Garrard 401 when funds allow
Got the good arm and just need a plinth and the deck now...
