I-S
Good Evening.... Infidel
julian - The VAG 2.0TDI is going into the rather tasty mitsubishi Grandis...
Rover - any hope?
- Thread starter amazingtrade
- Start date
julian2002
Muper Soderator
looks nice but to be honest i'd never buy a new car again. i'll let someone else take the big deprieciation hit first.
my ideal vehicle would have to be an old diesel lwb land rover - tough as old boots. repairable with a chisel and lump hammer, enough room in the back for a dead cow and seats as needed. either that or a toyota large cab pickup - do you remember top gear trying to kill one of those?
cheers
julian
my ideal vehicle would have to be an old diesel lwb land rover - tough as old boots. repairable with a chisel and lump hammer, enough room in the back for a dead cow and seats as needed. either that or a toyota large cab pickup - do you remember top gear trying to kill one of those?
cheers
julian
amazingtrade
Mad Madchestoh fan
I saw that, they even set the damn thing on the fire and it still worked. Not all toyota's are that reliable, I know a problem RAV4 for example.
I know Quantin Wilson once claimed to have done 120,000 miles in a Lexus LS400, the only thing within time that needed replacing were the breaks, tyres and a bulb!
I know Quantin Wilson once claimed to have done 120,000 miles in a Lexus LS400, the only thing within time that needed replacing were the breaks, tyres and a bulb!
amazingtrade said:
Ford haven't made any money for years - especially in Europe - and Jaguar are also in trouble. An article on the BBC business website a couple of weeks ago stated 'that if the brand wasn't Ford it would be no longer exist'.
Both GM and Ford are on the brink of being downgraded to junk status - which means that shares should be sold and that the creditors might starting asking for more interest.
Also I think Toyota now have larger revenue than Ford and may have forced Ford to slip down to number 3.
Well as an ex-Merc dealer I can honestly say there is no better way of wasting money than buying a new car, three year old cars make the best VFM by far.
Lexus are amazingly reliable, I dont know how they do it, Ive only ever heard of one having a serious problem (the engine kept cutting out on a RX300) and Lexus just swapped it, for a brand new one, his pick! now thats customer service. Compare that to the disgrace that is Merc (1 in 3 of my customers had a fault within the first 3 months and all my cars had to have work done, the worst being an awful A160 LWB that had to have a full dashboard rebuild after 500 miles), beemers & audi's arent far behind either. Of all the cars Ive personally bought and sold I think the mitsi shogun was easily the least trouble, the most expensive was a 318is I bought, 3 yr old full, 38K full main dealer history, started to cost money when it hit 50K, fantastic car though.
Rover couldnt afford to develop a car as it stands, the industry average for a meduim sector car development is about $1 billion hence the need for platform sharing, unless they find an existing established manufacturer to work with theyre knacked. I watched abit of a debate on the subject last night and the general opinion was that this china deal is all a means of forcing the governments hand just before an election.
Lexus are amazingly reliable, I dont know how they do it, Ive only ever heard of one having a serious problem (the engine kept cutting out on a RX300) and Lexus just swapped it, for a brand new one, his pick! now thats customer service. Compare that to the disgrace that is Merc (1 in 3 of my customers had a fault within the first 3 months and all my cars had to have work done, the worst being an awful A160 LWB that had to have a full dashboard rebuild after 500 miles), beemers & audi's arent far behind either. Of all the cars Ive personally bought and sold I think the mitsi shogun was easily the least trouble, the most expensive was a 318is I bought, 3 yr old full, 38K full main dealer history, started to cost money when it hit 50K, fantastic car though.
Rover couldnt afford to develop a car as it stands, the industry average for a meduim sector car development is about $1 billion hence the need for platform sharing, unless they find an existing established manufacturer to work with theyre knacked. I watched abit of a debate on the subject last night and the general opinion was that this china deal is all a means of forcing the governments hand just before an election.
griffo104 said:
Yup, toyota are the third largest manufacturer, sadly for ford their domestic image as dropped of the scale. I really hope jaguar doesnt suffer because of this they really are producing fine cars these days.
I-S
Good Evening.... Infidel
Tbone - my parent's shogun hasn't been 100%... it's been through a gearbox, rear diff, ECU, various bits of bodywork, etc... Their 7 series hasn't been brilliant either (but we couldn't afford a MkIV Lexus LS, and the 7 outgunned the mkIII).
julian2002
Muper Soderator
if fuel costs and practicality weren't a consideration i'd get another mk 1 ls 400 and consider the car thing solved for the rest of my life, they really are that good.
cheers
julian.
cheers
julian.
Isaac Sibson said:
Was that the petrol shogun? I know the 24v had its troubles. Ive got to say the worst, by a long way, cars that I know about are the Range Rovers, Disco's and MGF's. The last model RR was abysmal, transfer box, intercoolers, air cons and auto's are very likely to go after 50K, I px'd quite a few and not one hadnt had bills for under a grand with it. Thing is, they swapped them for ML's, not much better!
Im glad to see Lexus have finally developed a tasty derv engine, bout time!
I-S
Good Evening.... Infidel
Tbone - yes, it's a 3.0 V6 but it's a 12v, '91 J reg. 6A72 I'm told...
T-bone Sanchez said:
Wow there fella - my wife was thinking of getting (and it was my idea) an ML270CDI later this year - 53 regs with little over 20K miles seem to go for about £23K (or possibly a fully loaded 52 reg with 30K miles for the same price).
I kind of hoped the ealier ML problems (patchy build quality etc) would have been sorted on the newer models but now you've got me worried.
Are you saying steer clear of the MLs and go for something like a Shogun Warrior instead?
Matt.
I-S
Good Evening.... Infidel
It seems that if the experience of a Mr Clarkson is anything to go by, merc build quality isn't what it was and the dealer experience is not a good one. What I have been finding lately (and this will be less true with the shogun than with my galant) is that mitsubishi dealers in the uk are pretty rubbish, but they're saved by the basic reliability of the cars meaning you don't need to visit too often.
julian2002
Muper Soderator
matt,
rx300
'nuff said.
rx300
'nuff said.
amazingtrade
Mad Madchestoh fan
My dads escort has been amazingly reliable for the price he paid for it £1600 in 2002. Nothing much has gone wrong apart form a lambda sesnor, cat convertor, exhaust, breakes, bearings etc but much of this was the fault of the previous owner who took the car to kwikfit, they messed up the rear end which caused the bearings to go.
The exhaust, cat and lambda sesnor is purely due to the fact my dad very very really drives outside of South Manchester so virtualy all his driving is city based. My uncle did a compression test on the engine last year and said it was perfroming like a brand new engine, there was nothing wrong with it all.
What really lets my dads car down is that Ford decided it was a good idea not to bother gavinising escorts, so at 10 years old there is rust in places, also the ride is quite lumpy.
The Punto was also very reliable but then that car was only two years old when we bought that.
I think the most reliable car I know if in my family is my uncles Skoda Fabria, he said its been more reliable than the BMW 750 he used to have years ago. He's done 80k in now and nothing much has gone wrong, but he is expecting a large garage bill next time he takes into a service though!
My grandads Nissan Micra has 140k on the clock, the engine does sound a bit rough but the car is still going strong. I can't imagine a K reg Fiesta with that many miles on the clock still working. My grandads car hasn't even got a blob of rust on it, its one of the newer shape micras.
It seems branding is very important, Ford now have a zero image, Toyota have an image of reliability, GM's brands have image problems as well.
The exhaust, cat and lambda sesnor is purely due to the fact my dad very very really drives outside of South Manchester so virtualy all his driving is city based. My uncle did a compression test on the engine last year and said it was perfroming like a brand new engine, there was nothing wrong with it all.
What really lets my dads car down is that Ford decided it was a good idea not to bother gavinising escorts, so at 10 years old there is rust in places, also the ride is quite lumpy.
The Punto was also very reliable but then that car was only two years old when we bought that.
I think the most reliable car I know if in my family is my uncles Skoda Fabria, he said its been more reliable than the BMW 750 he used to have years ago. He's done 80k in now and nothing much has gone wrong, but he is expecting a large garage bill next time he takes into a service though!
My grandads Nissan Micra has 140k on the clock, the engine does sound a bit rough but the car is still going strong. I can't imagine a K reg Fiesta with that many miles on the clock still working. My grandads car hasn't even got a blob of rust on it, its one of the newer shape micras.
It seems branding is very important, Ford now have a zero image, Toyota have an image of reliability, GM's brands have image problems as well.
Merc build is crap you'd be shocked at what we use to have to do.
Matt, personally I wouldnt touch an ML, the face-lifted models (sept '01) did improve quite abit and being a derv it will be an Austrian build (tip for anyone after an ML, copy the chassis number of the screen and ring merc, they'll tell you its origin, if its US NO NO NO), but still Im not sure. The shogun warrior is ancient, its based on LM200 and not the shogun, I think they still uses leaf springs on the back, I dont think you'd be happy with the drive at all. The RX300 is decent if fuel isnt an issue, landcruisers are very decent kit and that budget will get you a late model with decent spec.
Matt, personally I wouldnt touch an ML, the face-lifted models (sept '01) did improve quite abit and being a derv it will be an Austrian build (tip for anyone after an ML, copy the chassis number of the screen and ring merc, they'll tell you its origin, if its US NO NO NO), but still Im not sure. The shogun warrior is ancient, its based on LM200 and not the shogun, I think they still uses leaf springs on the back, I dont think you'd be happy with the drive at all. The RX300 is decent if fuel isnt an issue, landcruisers are very decent kit and that budget will get you a late model with decent spec.
I-S
Good Evening.... Infidel
amazingtrade said:
Wouldn't say that Saab or Subaru have image problems... But then neither do Aston Martin or Bentley...
amazingtrade
Mad Madchestoh fan
Isaac Sibson said:
I was meaning brands like Vauxhall though, I think Saab sort of have a poor man's BMW image. It dosn't help that their cars are now quite dated, I think in many aspects they are similier to Rover but have the backing of a major company.
Saab seem to be able to survive on safety and solid Swedesh engineering. I guess it says "I can think out of the box, I buy a Saab" rather than just buying a run of the mill 3 series.
I was just reading an older news article about Rover and it seems they want to build the 25 in China. Now to me if this happens the 25 sales will halt, they are already very slow, UK buyers don't really trust the Chineese build quality in cars, and Rover have always sold their Britishness in their brand, the indian built cityrover was a total flop, I think the SAIC 25 will also be a major flop.
On the other hand SAIC need Rover otherwise the company has no way they can sell cars in the European market.
Uncle Ants
In Recordeo Speramus
amazingtrade said:
er. Just a thought (which contradicts my earlier pessimistic post). If they build Rovers in China, I suspect the smart thing to do might be to sell them to the Chinese. There are rather a lot of them. You never know. The Rover 25 could become the Chinese equivalent of the Hindustan Ambassador in India (aka the Morris Oxford).
Pity about global warming though.
Isaac Sibson said:
Unfortunately for GM Saabs dont sell outside Europe and scoobys are cheap over in da US. Chevy's and Caddys are no longer popular (although I love the new Caddys), I dont know why they bothered with Deawho? Their savour could well be Opel, they are producing some decent kit these days (the new Astra VXR looks one hell of a motor) and make worthy platforms for other models.
Ford has a strong family; Aston, Jag's, Volvo, Land Rover & Mazda are all decent performers and should help in the long-run.
T-bone Sanchez said:
Thanks for that. I want diesel really so no RX300 and the option of 7 seats would be good. I think you may be thinking of the Shogun Sport when you mention the LM200 - I'm on about the normal huge Shogun with 7 seats - Warrior is just one of the trims (leather, big alloys) available on both.
Landcruiser is a good shout - I've seen new shap LWB diesels for early £20's - big bugger though - would want parking sensors all round. I also like the look of the new Discovery but not sure I'd trust its reliability
The there is the new Nissan Pathfinder - seven seats, diesel - looks good from most angles apart from the rear where it looks like an old Astra estate. Might well check it out although Autocar reckonned it's underpowered. I think they start at £24K so maybe £2K off in a couple of months when the brokers start to do their stuff.
If all that fails then it will be a case of sod the 7 seats and go for a diesel X-Trail/RAV4/CRV.
Matt.
