Rover - any hope?

The K series is apparantly a very good engine, they are reliable and very good fun to drive, probably more fun than anything the German's can do for the money. The problem is the engines are prone to failure. I've never heared of a Zetec engine failing for example, I know two examples of failed K series.

I think the 1990 Honda based 200 and 400's were not bad cars, probably better than the 1990 Escort. I was never sure about the 1995 400 (Honda Civic). This car is still being made (The 45) but I think its really really out dated its laughable. The 25 is a decent car, it may be old but you get a lot of standard equipment for your money, they can compete very well against cars such as the VW Polo. It may be modern but they are a bit bland.

The 75 is also a very nice car, but that money buys you Japaneese executive cars, and many people would prefer to buy a brand that will hold its value when they are spending £20k or more.

I still think Rover can have a future but it needs a large car company to buy it out. With Rover's designers and for the sake of arguement Ford engines and chasis I reckon they can compete. There is still a lot of loyal Rover customers out there although in the last few years many of them have become impatiant.

 

K series is NOT a reliable engine.

Mitsubishi's 4G63 is a reliable engine. So are many from toyota, honda, etc. The japanese have everyone else beat on this. German aren't too bad, but have had and do have some issues (VAG coil pack problems, BMW nikasil issues, etc). I suspect that the K series will be fighting it out with the renault DCi for the POS award.

 

BMW pumped over a £1 billion into Rover, if it wasnt for BMW Rover would have been dead and burried long long ago. BMW had to pull out when they did or else they would have been taken with them.

Its a common misconception that all Rovers used Honda engines, The 1600's (but not all), the 2000's in the 6 series and the 2.7 V6 were Honda derived. Every other either had a k-series, B-series or Peugoet Diesels. Very little components were shared and Honda had seperate suppliers to Rover, in the trade it is well know that a Rover is most definately not a Honda.

Rover have had their chance, they've had the backing of the two of the best automotive engineering companies in the world and still failed. Regarding the losses, BMW paid off alot of their debt as part of the deal with pheonix as well as proping up the pension fund. The sad truth is the fabled R45 platform that was to form the next generation of Rovers is nothing more than a computer image.

 

The K series is a liability, they blow more heads than a New York hooker. They got very cocky with Honda when they produced that which was one reason for the fall-out.

 

By reliabile I meant they can be depenadable until they fail. My uncles car has got 100k on it, its broke down twice, the first time the cylender head cracked, but also caused damage to the cylinders and they cracked, the second time the gearbox failed which I think to fair on Rover is not made by them.

The problem with the K series engines is durability rather than reliablility although they probably are unrealible as well.

What is the chasis of the 45 based on? I know its a 1995 Honda Civic but the BBC said the design is actually older than that, so I am assuming it must be based on a 1990 Civic or somthing?

 

The 45 is based on the early nineties Civic (poss '91) platform, which in-turn was an evolution of an '80's Jap only saloon. Rover decided to use this platform for a car designed to replace the Meastro, Montego & the existing 400. Rover did all of the design work on the shape of the exterior and interior and most of the road testing. Im not sure of what really happened but Honda and Rover seriously fell out when the two cars were launched. I read that Honda didnt rate the K Series at all and didnt want to carry on with the 200/concerto platform which is still the base for the 25. Honda had the next generation Civic and Accord well underway without Rover's invlovement which I presume pissed Rover off. Rover also made the mistake of pitching the 400 against the mondeo/vectra class and pitching the 600 against the 3 series/C Class whereas Honda were far more realistic with their Civic and Accord.

 

I'm wondering whether they could just preserve the MG brand and build something desirable. This is what BMW did with the Mini brand - kept the brand value, built a decent, desirable car that sells well and holds it's value - isn't that what most buyers want i.e. something that looks good, drives well and won't lose a shed-load of money?

The trouble is I guess it would cost the earth to develop a couple of really decent new MGs.

Matt.

 

The problem is it seems the situation at Rover is far worse than any of the public realised. They have already sold longbridge, The K series engine, and designs and rights to build the cars to SAIC. BMW still own the Rover brand name.

All MG rover actually own is the MG brand and some stately home, as well as plant equipment. In total their assets are worth £50 million.

I think somebody like Ford who dosn't perhaps have the image to buld a sports car that sells would do well to own the MG brand. They could build Focus based sports cars and build them at a largely scaled down Longbridge.

BMW perhaps could perhaps make a 320 Rover, the rover edition indicating wood on the dashboard

MG does seem to be their only viable asset and its one that is worth saving.

 

About £1.4 billion is the quoted figure for production of the new R40 car, £400-500 million of this is refitting the Longbridge plant. They'd need to sell about 250,000 mid-sector cars at full price to be viable. This is why I believe its dead, I cant see them getting funding and nearly every other comany is either tied-up or in the crap themselves. I suppose TATA could have a look?

I fear that SAIC or others are waiting for the axe to fall then pick-off what they want. Even so, Im not really sure that the MG brand holds as much appeal abroad as people think. It must be decades since the yanks saw an MG (or did they get the MG Meastro? ). I read that the chinese have already been over to measure up the longbridge plant in readiness for shipping the 25 line over to China, the vultures are above.

 

I think The British government should stop the Chinese getting their knits on Rover. I know this is mot legally possible. But in world standards the Rover's are not bad cars, they just cannot compete with European cars.

If china gets the expertise from Rover to build cars then they could become a world dominator in the car industry undercutting UK produced cars meaning that plants such as Nissan may close. I know this is an extreme example but after WW2 The British taught the Japeneese how to build cars - now look whats happened.

The British seem to have a habbit of giving away our designs to foreign countries. The computer is a classic example.

 

The thing is that the MG brand isn't desirable, unlike the mini brand. The Rover brand might have stood for something in pre-BL times, but since then it has only stood for industrial strife and poor reliability (not just the K-series... the SD1 had myriad faults, and most rovers since, save the honda bits).

 

I suppose there has been some awful MGs, the Montego and Meastro especialy. I suppose Lotus was always a better marque than MG and that is why Proton can make it work. I also suspect the Lotus plant is much smaller than Longbridge.

 

The other thing is that Lotus has something else... expertise.

There is very little expertise at MGR. The 75 was engineered by BMW. The other models by Honda. Lotus, however, have the expertise to produce fantastic chassis (Elise/VX220) and also the knowledge to drastically improve an existing one (Proton Gti, Lotus Carlton).

Towers cut losses by cutting investment... BMW were investing heavily and reaping no reward. Towers reaped what he could from BMW's investment without any further input. What development has taken place since BMW departed has been on a shoestring, and pointed in entirely the wrong direction. Let's see... Oil prices shooting up, green movement becoming stronger, diesel taking a massively increasing market share - response? The MG SV X-Power, MG ZT260 V8 and Rover 75 V8. Smart move...

The only other things that investment seemingly went towards was endless facelifts of ancient models, and the Pheonix consortium's slush funds.

 

Lotus did employ about 1000 a couple of years ago but I suspect its less these days.

Actually, Lotus have designed a modular chassis that is quite cheap manufacture and is adaptable. Now if we all chip-in and do a deal with the recievers........

 

Now now Isaac, they do have the CityRover, at home in Bombay and Birmingham! A bargain at £1400 from tata.

 

If I was in charge at MGR what I would have done is created a Morris Minor. It would be based on a 25 platform and use the K series engines. It would have basicaly been a Rover 25 with a different body, I think it might have sold well as a niche car.

I agree some of those big engined MGs were pretty silly.

I feel sorry for its workers at the moment, they are being offered £280 per year they have worked there, for a maximum of 12 years. Thats £3660 that won't even pay the mortage and feed the family for three months .

It is also worth noting that its not just the UK that has problems, GM is having problems selling its Amercan brands in North America. It seems the yanks are now favouring European and Jap cars.

 

i thought the Rover brand was supposed to be about class, this interior looks very nasty for a modern mid 00's car.

Those plastics would look out of place in a modern Kia. Its no wounder they have appeared to sell none of the things.

 

Id scrap the lot.

 

It is Indian afterall, and very very cheap to buy from tata. Strangely Ive seen quite a few this week.

 

Funny that, I saw my one and only last week!
Rover the only thing that will save it is the election, could become a political football. Tony B won't want our biggest car manufacturer going tits up whilst he's telling us economically sound we are.....