sacd - is it worth the trouble ??

Paul V said:
Lawrie

Have you used a DAC64 with a 2900 as transport ??. If so, what did you think ??.

Paul/Sarah-Jane
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Paul,

I haven't used the combo personally, but a friend of mine does and the DVD-2900 & DAC64 are hooked up to a Conrad Johnson tube preamp & Conrad Johnson FET power amp. It sounds very good. The Denon 2900 (& 2200) are some of the better Japanese models out there when it comes to sampling the delights (or getting an introduction) to SACD,v DVD-A etc.

IMO, dedicated SACD/CD players do the SACD thing better but you can't go wrong with the 2900 especially as you've got the DAC64 for red-book duties.

One thing to watch about the 2900 is that some of them had QC problems with noisy transports and rattling cases. Make sure the one you pick up is not one of those. Do post your vibes on the Denon/Chord combo if you do get the Denon.



Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.:D
 
IMO SACD sounds great and i do hear improvements over CD.

this is obviously depends on player's level - i have to say that i'm surprised that Wadia lost to cheapo pioneer.

in my case i was afaraid to loose good CD replay - so i chose to go for decent SACD player instead of selling my CD and go for really expensive SACD player.

in your case it's easy as you use DAC - so your CD performance will remain uncompromised anyway.

important point is software availability - if you are classic or jazz fun you will find more than enough software available.
if you're primary rock/pop listener software selection won't satisfy you.
 
Lawrie

I will post my thoughts on the 2900/DAC64, no problem.

In December I'll hopefully be taking delivery of new Border Patrol pre-amp/power amp and LV Avatar OBXs. I'm encouraged that the 2900/DAC64 sounds fine thru your mate's CJ gear. That's good enough for me.

Paul
 
Croc said:
important point is software availability - if you are classic or jazz fun you will find more than enough software available.
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I'm completely underwhelmed by the jazz selection available. The world does not need yet another remaster of Waltz for Debbie or Blue Train IMO.

-- Ian
 
aparantely those items are sold very well.

i didn't hear such remarks about XRCD remasters, for example, which are in addition are quite expensive..........
 
Paul V said:
Lawrie

In December I'll hopefully be taking delivery of new Border Patrol pre-amp/power amp and LV Avatar OBXs. I'm encouraged that the 2900/DAC64 sounds fine thru your mate's CJ gear. That's good enough for me.

Paul
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Paul,

That sounds like an excellent combination of amp and speakers, if reports are anything to go by, as I've never heard the combo due to them not being sold here in Lawrieville. A mini-review of that combo together with the Denon/Chord combo will be greatly appreciated.:D

Btw, in my personal opinion, and through personal tests that I conducted, the Chord DAC64 sounds better when going through tube amplification than solid-state, but others may disagree.;)



Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.:D
 
aparantely those items are sold very well.
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I've no doubt they sell well, but they're relatively minor items in each artist's discography, and have been subject to endless remastering over the years. (Every time there's a new format why do the same records always get reissued? Dark Side of the Moon is probably the pre-eminent example, and it's not even a very good album.) I went hunting for some interesting SACD or DVD-A releases when I bought a Pioneer 575 recently. It was hard work finding anything I didn't already have, at a price that was less than I'd have to pay for an early vinyl pressing, which would be my preference every time, as: (a) 50s and 60s jazz vinyl generally sounds great; (b) it doesn't lose its value; (c) I can be reasonably certain the playback equipment enabling me to listen to it will still exist in 20 years time, not something I'd bet on being the case with any of the new hi-res digital formats.

-- Ian
 
I'm failed to be convinced by sacd at all, for those of you wanting to dabble your toes in sony's hi-rez adventure, then try a multi-format unit, a few tweeks and they're listenable, the 2900 can be made to sound quite fair, as can the baby pioneer (which I prefer in cd over the 2900).
Graham, I find your thoughts most interesting, we had to use a big sony (with toys), before we could hear (noticably) any of the mid range bonus that sacd brings to party, and then at the expense of the 'feel real' & music removal, though if 'proper music & snob Jazz' are your bag, then worth an earwig, it certainly does enhance the listening pleasure for these musical formats. For our more mainstream stuff, then redbook, (especially a late 90's player can really deliver)
 
Lawrie,

I did chance upon a dac 64 system not so long ago with solid state, that did indeed sound good, very un 64 like, that used Impulse horns & DNM amplification & Teac transport.
A very nice sound indeed, and surprising too.
 
sideshowbob said:
It was hard work finding anything I didn't already have, at a price that was less than I'd have to pay for an early vinyl pressing, which would be my preference every time
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obviously if you have a large collection so it might be not intersting for you.

just mind that there are audiophiles out there that wouldn't like to deal with LP. for them sacd might be a very good solution.
 
I use a Pioneer 757Ai i-linked to the Pioneer AX5i and so can listen to SACD using a direct DSD feed into the amp. How does it sound? Well, in the 12 months I've had the ability to replay SACD I've managed to amass a collection of precisely one SACD (and that was a Germany only special edition) so I haven't heard enough to make much comment.

The SACD itself is Paul Van Dyk's 'Reflections' album. When listening in 2 channel mode I prefer the sound from the CD layer from my hi-fi rather than stereo SACD from my AV system.

The multi-channel SACD layer is interesting... as in it completely messes your head up and I find I can only listen to it for about two complete songs in a row, unless I'm very drunk :)

In my view, after finding only one SACD I actually thought worth buying, it wouldn't worry me at all if the format had never existed. I'm still on a mission to buy my first DVD-A also. The Crystal Method's 'Legion of Boom' is a contender but I fear it may end up just a novelty head trip like the PVD one.
 
wadia-miester said:
Lawrie,

I did chance upon a dac 64 system not so long ago with solid state, that did indeed sound good, very un 64 like, that used Impulse horns & DNM amplification & Teac transport.
A very nice sound indeed, and surprising too.
Click to expand...

WM,

You must be a very lucky man indeed to have come across that.:D I'm still hoping.;) Was the DAC 64 modified or would you say that the horn speakers had something to do with what you heard as they are non-conventional speakers? Btw, I don't know much about DNM amps but how would you describe their sound? Is it Naim-like?



Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.:D
 
Lawrie,
The dmn amps, are low powered, mono blox (23w pc) with seperate psu's, as is the pre, all plastic design Mr Moorecroft is very specific about this!!, the horns are a unique design, horn loaded tweeter, convention mid/bass drivers not huge either. But a very musical sound and open too, with nice flow and pace, and not coloured in the way a lot of horns are either.
Not a hint of in yer face, or the top end hardness either, and the relentlessness was not present at all.
Naim like? humm, well I see why some naim guys like them, great musical communicators, but with poise/detail and nice tonal balance.
Transport was a Trichord moded unit and the dac64 had one small tweek only,inside on the psu.(Again Tichord orginated)
The most unlike dac64 I've heard, and most pleasing on the ear.
 
wadia-miester said:
Transport was a Trichord moded unit and the dac64 had one small tweek only,inside on the psu.(Again Tichord orginated)
The most unlike dac64 I've heard, and most pleasing on the ear.
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WM,

I thought as much that the DAC64 etc had been modified.;) The relentless or forward quality that you mentioned was what stopped me signing on the dotted line. It's interesting to know that the 'beast' can be tamed after all.:D

Btw, interesting info on the DNM, a brand that does not appear anywhere near my radar as I hardly ever hear or read about it nor have I ever seen one. One thing though - the name Moorecroft rings a bell. Is he the same Moorecroft that designs amplifiers for Resolution Audio (of Opus 21 fame) or have I dialled the wrong number?



Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.:D
 
Lawrie,
The mod to the 64, was very simple. (Nothing removed)
Mr M has input on the Opus 21 I believe and on some Res/Audio, though the question would be better put on PFM, they are all familar with all things DNM and will know more than I.
 
alanbeeb said:
BTW I believe the Pioneer 565 is one of the players that converts DSD to PCM, so its not doing the 'proper' SACD experience.... not sure what bitrate it converts to but I suspect its something like 48Khz/24bit and not what DVD-A is capable of (192/24).
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:confused: Below is a post by 'eisenach' In the thread "DSD converted to PCM" at
http://forum.hifichoice.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=12567&highlight=

"I'm fairly certain the upper pioneer universals do pure DSD for SACD - the 868 and possibly the 668."
"..., this also turns out to be true for the 575. Via the Pioneer website, I asked, and got this courteous and informative reply."

Quote:

Thanks for your email.

The audio is outputted from the audio decoder as PCM data for WMA,MP3, CD audio and DVD-Audio and as a DSD data stream for SACD from the integrated SACD processor, it is then fed to the D/A converters as a DSD stream.

Regards.
Customer Relations.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
What happens in the DAC chips?

Do they convert directly from dsd to analogue, or do they first convert the signal to a form of PCM for processing to analogue?
 

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