sacd - is it worth the trouble ??

sacd - is it worth the trouble ?
Click to expand...

Well, I'd say yes, at least for me.
As I said earlier in this thread, I've finally taken the plunge and ordered a Philips DVD963SA. It's now arrived, and I'm dead impressed.
My two hybrid discs come up much better in SACD (2 channel only), and it's even a bloody good cd player.

System: Tag PA20R; 2x Tag 60P; DAC20; Audiolab 8000CD; B&W CDM9NT; cd-str5 isolation feet and ebay(!) mains filters. Cables: Kimber mains, Chord Anthem and Chorus interconnects.

CD reply via the Philips runs the Audiolab/Tag Dac combo very close. Differences are only apparent on A/B comparison (I used the free TAG demo disc a lot,as I have two original copies), and are very slight. The 963 loses out slightly on slam and timbral variety, is slightly softer, but, especially when upsampling to 196, has a euphonic sweetness which is rather attractive, and the slight softness on leading edges isn't really noticeable in isolation.
This general character is maintained whatever the replay option: upsampled / straight / as a transport into the Dac20.
For a player which cost me £300, this is a stunning achievement. Then add on SACD compatability, plus the fact that it's also a fine DVD player (no DVD-A, though).
I listen mainly to classical, and there does seem to be a good and growing SACD catalogue out there, whilst the lack of DVD-A doesn't seem to be much of an issue for classical.
The SACD differences are worthwhile, though as has been said elsewhere, not so much that I would prefer an indifferent SACD performance to a good one on CD. And to put it in perspective, as I've been whingeing away on the HFC forum, some cheap mains filters off ebay made a (bigger) difference than SACD has done over CD.
Nevertheless, for the 963's cd replay to be so good is simply stunning. I may well yet decide to get rid of the Audiolab (keeping the DAC for MD and general flexibility). Some careful listening called for, but it seems, much smiling in prospect.
The 963's discontinued now, but can still be had from Pantheronline.
I'd recommend it.

Edited to add:
I've tidied up the rack and slotted the 963 in better. It's now got a better digital cable to the DAC20, and for the life of me, I can no longer hear any significant difference between the 963 as a transport and the Audiolab. There's not much between the 963 analogue outs at standard sampling rate and the Audiolab/Tag combo either. Upsampling puts on rosy glasses!
For the price, simply outstanding.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
merlin said:
What happens in the DAC chips?
Do they convert directly from dsd to analogue, or do they first convert the signal to a form of PCM for processing to analogue?
Click to expand...

As I understand it, the AX5i was the first Pioneer amp to convert directly from DSD via i-Link to analogue. The new incarnation of the AX10i now deals with DSD in this way also.
 
Due to a mix up with my contents insurers, I ended up with a Sony SCD555ES and a Cyrus CD8 with PSXR.
Most of my listening is classical and opera, and I find that a well produced SACD whups the CD8 into a cocked hat. A bad recording however really grates and is pretty unlistenable.

I only have a few SACDs right now, but will only be buying SACD in the future. One big convert here. :D
 
Just looking for what's available on SACD (for classical, lots!) and came across this on electronicstalk.com
Pioneer is to use Philips' Super Audio CD (SACD) single-chip solution, the SAA7893HL chip.
Click to expand...

If you're interested, it goes on:

"Pioneer will integrate Philips' SAA7893HL chip into its Universal DVD player (DV-563A-S) and universal home theatre system (HTZ-830DV) designed for at the US market, providing consumers with sound quality superior to that of a CD.
SACD is a key feature for multichannel audio in DVD video players and receivers, and Philips' SAA7893HL chip is the ideal semiconductor solution to seamlessly and cost-effectively add SACD capabilities to DVD devices.
"The SACD format has been gaining momentum in the DVD market, presenting a growth opportunity for chipmakers", according to Michelle Abraham of leading industry analyst firm In-Stat/MDR.
"By 2005, 35% of all DVD players and receivers will include SACD as a standard feature".
Codeveloped by Philips, the SACD format represents the next level of audio reproduction, and offers DVD manufacturers an easy-to-integrate solution that provides consumers with a high-quality audio experience - equivalent to that of a live concert performance.
Equipped with Philips' SAA7893HL chip solution, Pioneer's new universal player and universal home theatre system will offer DVD-V/SACD and DVD-A playback.
"Using Philips' SAA7893HL chip made it straightforward to integrate SACD into our new range of advanced DVD video receivers", said Hiroshi Ohtsubo, General Manager of Video Planning Department at Pioneer's Consumer Video Product Division.
"SACD delivers the highest possible multichannel audio quality, and therefore presents a compelling feature in our premium DVD video players and receivers".
"We are providing our partners cost-efficient, flexible chip solutions to bring the latest innovations and developments in laser optics to the market", stated Jeroen Keunen, General Manager of Consumer and Multimedia, Philips Semiconductors.
"Pioneer's expertise in DVD applications combined with Philips' leadership position in optical storage proved to be a strong combination, pushing the frontiers of multichannel audio within DVD players and recorders".
Philips' SAA7893HL chip is a flexible and cost-effective single-chip hardware and software solution offering complete SACD functionality, avoiding the need for continual redesign and re-integration of SACD into various applications.
The SAA7893HL chip can support many different DVD platforms because of the integrated multiple loader and host interfaces.
It enables manufacturers to introduce DVD video players and receivers that can support six-channel SACD and DVD playback.
The six-channel DAC outputs of the DVD host are routed via the chip, which provides a DAC switch function between SACD mode and DVD mode.
Offering a complete solution, including Annex J+ level SW API, the SAA7893HL chip also incorporates a full SACD software stack."
 
sacd - is it worth the trouble ??
Click to expand...
Yes.
I bought another sacd disc yesterday. Brilliant.
It's the "Living Stereo" re-release of music by Bartok - recorded in 1955 and 1958.
I know some have been known to speculate that the CD layer on some releases has been "nobbled". I couldn't comment, nor do I know whether the remastering on the two layers is the same, or whether the CD layer is some previous remastering attempt. In short, the CD layer sounds really bad, whatever you play it on.
The SACD stereo layer, by contrast is wonderful: wide open sound set in a believable accoustic, natural sounding strings and percussion.
I know it has been said that some early stereo recordings from the 50s and 60s are still cutting edge. On the evidence of this disc, I can well believe it.
 
Eisenach

Funny you say that some CD layers of SACDs sound rubbish. I borrowed the plain CD version of the Kleiber Beethoven 5/7 from the library before I bought it on SACD, and although I haven't directly compared the two the plain CD sounded better from memory than the CD layer on SACD.

I did have a little play with the Denon 2900 I've borrowed on Saturday with the above disk and it sounded very nice played as a SACD direct to my amp.
Didn't seem to have much over the CD layer played through my DAC64, but I was impressed : the Denon is £550, any transport/DAC64 is £2000+.

Is is the Living Stereo disk with "Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta" on it ??. I've got that on 180g vinyl. It's great, isn't it !!.

PV
 
Yep, that's the one. It really does sound wonderful.
This SACD has two LPs-worth on it: Music for strings ... - as you say, plus:
Concerto for Orchestra (recorded 1955)
and Hungarian Sketches (recorded 1958, and probably on the same original LP as Music for strings ...
At £10, very good value.
I could probably have got cheaper from MDT
though I haven't checked. Their prices are usually good though, as is their service. They have a good SACD catalogue.
 
Just ordered it from Amazon for £8.99...along with Reiner's Also Sprach Zarathustra which is a bit of a legend too.
Sad to see that Stravinsky's own recording of Rite of Spring and Firebird from early 60's is NLA from Sony classics on SACD.... its amazing- grab it with both hands and run if you see it anywhere.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top