SHOCKING: awesome Interconnects!!
- Thread starter Ultrasonic
- Start date
Dev
Moderator
Where can I get hold of some from?bottleneck said:
Anyone remember the cable "test" adb ran on the HFC forum??
Well I wasn't involved but what intrigued me about the results when they were finally revealed wasn't the fact that there wasn't any consensus about which cable was the best or even that people couldn't attribute the same characteristics to each cable. No, it was the fact that every single person involved reported the differing cables sounded different from each other. Given that nobody knew the construction or materials used of each cable, this seems interesting to me, as it would seem to ershew the oft touted cry of "but you know its a 'better' cable, so you of you'll think it sounds better" of the cable nay sayers.
GTM
Well I wasn't involved but what intrigued me about the results when they were finally revealed wasn't the fact that there wasn't any consensus about which cable was the best or even that people couldn't attribute the same characteristics to each cable. No, it was the fact that every single person involved reported the differing cables sounded different from each other. Given that nobody knew the construction or materials used of each cable, this seems interesting to me, as it would seem to ershew the oft touted cry of "but you know its a 'better' cable, so you of you'll think it sounds better" of the cable nay sayers.
GTM
I believe Graham C kindly brought some of it along to the Ipswich bake-off, Dev. Think it was called 'Studio Spares'. If i'm ever in the area, i'm happy to bring the Oratorios along, see what they can do to other peoples' systems. I have to say i'm incredibly curious....Dev said:
...
and....
how good (no, stunning) a Marantz CD6000ki can sound (and how transparent a Marantz PM7200 amp and Tannoy Sensys DC1s are)
kermit
still dreaming.......
Thats a very good point GTM .
And oddly enough(as I recall) many of the naysayers over at HFC took part in the experiment
michaelab
desafinado
GTM, I feel a cable debate coming....
:cry:
Anyway, what if you got a bunch of people and told them they were here to try 10 different flavours of grape juice or chococlate or whatever and that they should try them all and write down what they felt about each one. I would wager that if the identical product was used in all tests you'd still get lots of people noticing differences just because they were told they were all different.
The fact that everyone claimed to hear differences is not that significant. What is significant is that there was no consensus at all. What's more, I'd wager that if the test had been conducted again with the same people and the same cables and the comments of both test compared, you would have found that peoples descriptions wouldn't have been consistent from one test to the next.
Michael.
:cry:Anyway, what if you got a bunch of people and told them they were here to try 10 different flavours of grape juice or chococlate or whatever and that they should try them all and write down what they felt about each one. I would wager that if the identical product was used in all tests you'd still get lots of people noticing differences just because they were told they were all different.
The fact that everyone claimed to hear differences is not that significant. What is significant is that there was no consensus at all. What's more, I'd wager that if the test had been conducted again with the same people and the same cables and the comments of both test compared, you would have found that peoples descriptions wouldn't have been consistent from one test to the next.
Michael.
kermit
still dreaming.......
more likely the results will read ;
no difference ,
no difference ,
no difference,
no difference,
no difference ,
PeteH
Natural Blue
michaelab said:
Muuuuusssttttt.... resisssssssssssssstttttt......
PeteH
Natural Blue
GTM said:
The ear is predisposed to hear differences between anything and anything else - that's why AB "do they sound the same?" tests have to be conducted with enormous care, and why ABX "forced-choice" results are more easily interpretable.
OK, I'm really shutting up now. ultra, I'm glad you've sorted your system out to your satisfaction BTW.
Ultrasonic
Bo selecta!!
Paul, you win. I mean isnt it so much more fun getting a new pair of speakers?? Now the missions wernt holding the system back, they were just too big and meaty for my small room. Im sure in a big room they'd shine. When we used the Oratorio with them it geuinely cut down the bass boom. Over at HFC there was loadsa P*** taking about me imagining things but when ive heard some tracks so many times over, im sure im qualified to have the ability to notice changes? Prime example was missy elliots get ur freak on. It has a mammoth bass line which can be overwhelming if your hifi doesnt have a tight grip. Now it was just about bearable and quite chest thumping before we used the BR's, after, they lost alot of the overhang and basslines gained texture and it was suddenly so much easier to differenciate between different basslines. Ive said before, im not easily lead and unless im really moved by Hifi kit whether it be cables or hardware i wont buy it. Im gonna have a look at other cables £200 and under but so far the BR is the only cable that has caused me to think "im buying this right now"
My gear isnt even mid-range but 1 has to hear what a carefully put together budget system can do!
Ultra
My gear isnt even mid-range but 1 has to hear what a carefully put together budget system can do!
Ultra
wadia-miester
Mighty Rearranger
Ultra Yes, the 'Its all in your head squad' I feel a few must hold shrink degree's to enable to diagnose this "condition" in so many people over such a wide range of problems and equipment throught the UK and beyond, stunning isn't it?
Prehaps they should be invitied to enhance mankinds thinking beyond pure thought, I look forward with great anticipation at this cosmic event
Prehaps they should be invitied to enhance mankinds thinking beyond pure thought, I look forward with great anticipation at this cosmic event
Dev
Moderator
Rory said:
You're welcome anytime Rory.
And...
I'm glad Ultra has discovered decent speakers
Now perhaps you should listen to some "proper" DCs 
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I got a similar 'grilling' regarding cables over on hifi choice last week! It was 99 to 1 against with most people saying cables made NO difference. I've heard it with my own ears but others seem to think they know best. Ah well!
wadia-miester
Mighty Rearranger
If it seems to be real,
Its illusion,
for ever moment of truth,
there is confusion in life
Its illusion,
for ever moment of truth,
there is confusion in life
Doctor Jeep said:
There is the problem. I have hear it with my ears too.
In this case it was comparing speakercables. After trying out many different brands for months I finally found one which does actually sounds better. I made my younger brother sit down and listen to all the cables to confirm my observation. He says since I was so convince maybe his ears are not as good since he could not detect any improvement.
A few months later I took up the dangerous and mysterious practise which is the Dark Art of Critical Listening. My Conclusion? These cables do indeed sound the same after all.
So where do we go from here?Although to be fair, the folks on HFC have as much right to their beliefs as you do yours. As pointed out, the onus is on you guys to prove the big differences you hear, not the other way around, and yet it never does get proven. I dont want to start an argument, but AFAICT its easy to see it from both sides of the fence. I've already stated I think cables make a difference (just not a very big one, and probably not big enough to DBT).
julian2002
Muper Soderator
paul,
hfc, seems to have become home to the dbt gestapo, where any opinion which hasn't been checked, verified and rubberstamped by a statistically significant number of independant witnesses is considered bollocks.
one of the major purposes of a forum is to provide real world feedback of products. ultrasonic and rory did this quite nicely imho but were given a very rough time by certain people over there, mainly, from what i can work out, over the wording of their initial post. this isn't going to encourage others to post similar opinions which is bad for that forum.
if someone wants to buy kit using sigted listening, dbt, abx, or eenie meany miney mo, it's up to them. they've taken the time to try to share their opinion and should be respected for that.
cheers
julian
hfc, seems to have become home to the dbt gestapo, where any opinion which hasn't been checked, verified and rubberstamped by a statistically significant number of independant witnesses is considered bollocks.
one of the major purposes of a forum is to provide real world feedback of products. ultrasonic and rory did this quite nicely imho but were given a very rough time by certain people over there, mainly, from what i can work out, over the wording of their initial post. this isn't going to encourage others to post similar opinions which is bad for that forum.
if someone wants to buy kit using sigted listening, dbt, abx, or eenie meany miney mo, it's up to them. they've taken the time to try to share their opinion and should be respected for that.
cheers
julian
I dont know about the wording(though granted, some people seem to REALLY analyse whats said), although I know what you mean, but I also knew what they meant. They said they heard a big difference: Fine, good for them, but I am certainly in agreement with the HFC boys in as much as I cant see it being that dramatic, but hey I wasnt there, simple fact is though, I wouldnt believe it unless I heard it for myself, happy to be proved wrong though, but my experience suggests they do make a difference, sometimes a fairly big difference, but thats rare. The only time I've heard any sizable difference is comparing very poor cables with ones I see as being the best. I've not performed any DBT though, so I could be wrong, but maybe its possible the VDH cable used previously wasnt very good at all?
Anyway, fine by me, by and large I am just sitting back enjoying the fireworks
Anyway, fine by me, by and large I am just sitting back enjoying the fireworks
julian2002
Muper Soderator
paul,
that's kind of what i was talking about. yes they said they heard a big difference. over at hfc the response was (to paraphrase) 'you're lying, it can't possibly be that big a difference' whilst elsewhere it's been 'interesting, i'll take a look myself if i want to upgrade my system at some point'. this seems to be the fundamental difference between hfc and other places. of course people are entitled to their opinions but mugging posters (as i said before) isn;t going to encourage new members to post their experiences.
cheers
julian
that's kind of what i was talking about. yes they said they heard a big difference. over at hfc the response was (to paraphrase) 'you're lying, it can't possibly be that big a difference' whilst elsewhere it's been 'interesting, i'll take a look myself if i want to upgrade my system at some point'. this seems to be the fundamental difference between hfc and other places. of course people are entitled to their opinions but mugging posters (as i said before) isn;t going to encourage new members to post their experiences.
cheers
julian
