penance
Arrogant Cock
but Julian, I dont care
Some sense creeping into the hifi press at last?
- Thread starter michaelab
- Start date
bottleneck
talks a load of rubbish
broken too hard a word I think. 'Hardware EQ' perfectly acceptable term IMHO for cables that dont measure well.
In a previous cable debate, someone stated the case that using cables as hardware EQ is just as appropriate as using hardware (like different sounding CDP's) as hardware EQ.
Funnily, I agree. As long as we accept that is whats going on.
Different sounding (poorly measuring) cables though tend to get labelled as 'better' with mumbo jumbo pseudo science used to back it up.. instead of just calling them a passive tone device..
All my 2p worth
In a previous cable debate, someone stated the case that using cables as hardware EQ is just as appropriate as using hardware (like different sounding CDP's) as hardware EQ.
Funnily, I agree. As long as we accept that is whats going on.
Different sounding (poorly measuring) cables though tend to get labelled as 'better' with mumbo jumbo pseudo science used to back it up.. instead of just calling them a passive tone device..
All my 2p worth
julian2002
Muper Soderator
but penance, i don't care that you don't care...
cheers
julian
cheers
julian
penance
Arrogant Cock
I thought you cared 
julian2002
Muper Soderator
if i cared any less i'd be in a coma...
cheers
julian
cheers
julian
penance
Arrogant Cock
Like JJ Cale?
7_V
I want a Linn - in a DB9
... as another thread drifts lazily into oblivion.
Does anyone care?
Does anyone care?
No.
Here endeth the thread!
Here endeth the thread!
As originally posted by someone over at the HFC forum, here's a news item on TARA labs being 'busted by the cops'.
http://www.mailtribune.com/archive/2004/0903/biz/stories/02biz.htm
"...company officials thought that if cables were finished with plugs and packaged in the U.S., they could be labeled as U.S.-made even though the original wiring was produced in Asia."
http://www.mailtribune.com/archive/2004/0903/biz/stories/02biz.htm
"...company officials thought that if cables were finished with plugs and packaged in the U.S., they could be labeled as U.S.-made even though the original wiring was produced in Asia."
julian2002 said:
I'd agree with that. Whenever I've looked into these money awarding cable 'tests', it seems as though what they're actually saying is that the cables used in the tests must be so similar as to sound exactly the same.
Hmmm.
PeteH
Natural Blue
juboy said:
Well...yes, that is exactly what they're saying. However, this also means that, as we've discussed ad nauseam, virtually any cable on the market falls within the acceptable tolerances.
senseless?
First off, I find it fascinating that this thread was growing faster than I could read it...from beginning to what I thought was page 5 at the time...
Now, without going into too much rhetoric, the following scenario goes for both cable-magicians as well as cable-physicians...
Imagine if you were forced to cast aside the entirety of your audio listening platform of choice. The whole kit and kaboodle, forever gone.
How would you start fresh? What have you learned in your experiences with audio equipment and peripherals?
Would you agree the logical choice would be to spend a decent (not obscene/tip top, not cheap/rubbish) amount of money for components which are:
1). Capable of a non-clipped/distorted output slightly higher than your listening level.
2). Are equipped to modify depending on your tastes/mood/audio type, via hardware, the output to suit your listening "needs".
3). ...and that such a capability would render any such "nuances" in paltry items such as cables a moot point? (Besides, what "matched" wires are used inside the equipment?...don't answer, it's just going to get you laughed at.)
...the point is, is that from its default out of box state, you can take decently priced equipment, with electronically sound signal conductors for speakers, (12 awg is just fine...) and make it sound just as good as obscenely high priced equipment....and vice versa.
If you think the tinning on the ends of 12 awg wires makes the sound too (insert vague descriptive adjectives here)...then use your damn EQ. Likewise, if the $6000/lft. rubidium parallel spun solid core cables give the audio a wider image than "Monster" cables, then perhaps you should just stick with your "Monster" cables and tweak the settings until your ear likes the sound.
...like it or not, cable-physicians are in utter disbelief at what they see as wasteful spending on components by the cable-magicians.
...and cable-magicians are in utter disbelief that cable-physicians can be absolutely content with what they hear out of an entire suite of apparently inferior equipment that costs less than one of the discrete amps in their rig.
It is such with any hobby. Rarely do large numbers of people feel satisfied with the same product...hence the relentless (...and seemingly ENDLESS. ) pursuit of happiness, in whatever field you may consider yourself an aficionado and/or guru.
Both sides will argue to sometimes illogical ends to pronounce or denounce a method or product as they view it to be.
Realize this...
You're all correct.
You're all wrong.
...So long as you're happy and don't try to force your views and opinions as fact on someone else who appears to be happy...enjoy your stuff.
...someone says they can't hear a difference in cables? So what, let 'em discuss what it is they find to be pleasing to the ear. I'm betting it has something to do with a piece of equipment they own or use.
They aren't right or wrong. For all you know, they could have tiny earlobes and are tone deaf.
...someone says that Acoustic Research cable would sound better if the connectors were flip-flopped? If it makes no difference to you, just be thankful you don't have to live with such sensitive hearing with regard to your own ears.
*-The probability of you being watched is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions...
First off, I find it fascinating that this thread was growing faster than I could read it...from beginning to what I thought was page 5 at the time...
Now, without going into too much rhetoric, the following scenario goes for both cable-magicians as well as cable-physicians...
Imagine if you were forced to cast aside the entirety of your audio listening platform of choice. The whole kit and kaboodle, forever gone.
How would you start fresh? What have you learned in your experiences with audio equipment and peripherals?
Would you agree the logical choice would be to spend a decent (not obscene/tip top, not cheap/rubbish) amount of money for components which are:
1). Capable of a non-clipped/distorted output slightly higher than your listening level.
2). Are equipped to modify depending on your tastes/mood/audio type, via hardware, the output to suit your listening "needs".
3). ...and that such a capability would render any such "nuances" in paltry items such as cables a moot point? (Besides, what "matched" wires are used inside the equipment?...don't answer, it's just going to get you laughed at.)
...the point is, is that from its default out of box state, you can take decently priced equipment, with electronically sound signal conductors for speakers, (12 awg is just fine...) and make it sound just as good as obscenely high priced equipment....and vice versa.
If you think the tinning on the ends of 12 awg wires makes the sound too (insert vague descriptive adjectives here)...then use your damn EQ. Likewise, if the $6000/lft. rubidium parallel spun solid core cables give the audio a wider image than "Monster" cables, then perhaps you should just stick with your "Monster" cables and tweak the settings until your ear likes the sound.
...like it or not, cable-physicians are in utter disbelief at what they see as wasteful spending on components by the cable-magicians.
...and cable-magicians are in utter disbelief that cable-physicians can be absolutely content with what they hear out of an entire suite of apparently inferior equipment that costs less than one of the discrete amps in their rig.
It is such with any hobby. Rarely do large numbers of people feel satisfied with the same product...hence the relentless (...and seemingly ENDLESS.
) pursuit of happiness, in whatever field you may consider yourself an aficionado and/or guru.Both sides will argue to sometimes illogical ends to pronounce or denounce a method or product as they view it to be.
Realize this...
You're all correct.
You're all wrong.
...So long as you're happy and don't try to force your views and opinions as fact on someone else who appears to be happy...enjoy your stuff.
...someone says they can't hear a difference in cables? So what, let 'em discuss what it is they find to be pleasing to the ear. I'm betting it has something to do with a piece of equipment they own or use.
They aren't right or wrong. For all you know, they could have tiny earlobes and are tone deaf.
...someone says that Acoustic Research cable would sound better if the connectors were flip-flopped? If it makes no difference to you, just be thankful you don't have to live with such sensitive hearing with regard to your own ears.
*-The probability of you being watched is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions...
7_V
I want a Linn - in a DB9
Interesting point but whether it's correct or wrong, I'm not sure.HolyChao said:
Welcome to the forum, HolyChao.
Perhaps a few wise words on equipment supports and we can all go home.
...doubling my post count here...watch out!
...another point that needs to be brought up is the listening environment.
My opinion of car audio systems stands that there's not a damn decent one out there that I've heard. Reason why I feel that way? You can't control the environment when you're on the road.
Likewise, you can't know or control the environment another person across the world listens in...so what may be good for you, just isn't practical or even pleasant for someone else.
My home audio systems? I'm particularly fond of the Yamaha AST speaker systems, as they handle whatever I throw at them, and I regret getting rid of my Yamaha's for my computer system, but you know what...audio is not on the forefront of my mind when watching movies or playing games.
If I'm listening to music/audio only on any of my systems, I spend a good deal of time tuning the equipment to match my tastes...and those tastes differ among the different types of music or audio I listen to.
For example, I like Jazz that has a wide and VERY clear soundstage, while vocals should be a bit toned down on the high end to lessen the effects of sibilance. (I can't stand sibilance in vocals, but rather like it on percussion instruments such as high hats...quite a conundrum I'm in for when i listen to moody jazz with a heavy diaphragmed vocalist...
)
Whether I find myself using cables permanently bonded to computer "multimedia" speakers or some no-name brand runs I've done myself in the walls for my home theatre...I can tune the system to sound how I like it.
That is the bar I have set for my equipment. I must be able to adjust it to suit my needs, which change based on my listening preference du jour.
I'm worse than a woman with a shoe habit...but instead of a Leona Helmsley brand name closet, I've only bought slightly more than necessary and always comfortable and (multi)functional over classy/designer items.
...another point that needs to be brought up is the listening environment.
My opinion of car audio systems stands that there's not a damn decent one out there that I've heard. Reason why I feel that way? You can't control the environment when you're on the road.
Likewise, you can't know or control the environment another person across the world listens in...so what may be good for you, just isn't practical or even pleasant for someone else.
My home audio systems? I'm particularly fond of the Yamaha AST speaker systems, as they handle whatever I throw at them, and I regret getting rid of my Yamaha's for my computer system, but you know what...audio is not on the forefront of my mind when watching movies or playing games.
If I'm listening to music/audio only on any of my systems, I spend a good deal of time tuning the equipment to match my tastes...and those tastes differ among the different types of music or audio I listen to.
For example, I like Jazz that has a wide and VERY clear soundstage, while vocals should be a bit toned down on the high end to lessen the effects of sibilance. (I can't stand sibilance in vocals, but rather like it on percussion instruments such as high hats...quite a conundrum I'm in for when i listen to moody jazz with a heavy diaphragmed vocalist...
)Whether I find myself using cables permanently bonded to computer "multimedia" speakers or some no-name brand runs I've done myself in the walls for my home theatre...I can tune the system to sound how I like it.
That is the bar I have set for my equipment. I must be able to adjust it to suit my needs, which change based on my listening preference du jour.
I'm worse than a woman with a shoe habit...but instead of a Leona Helmsley brand name closet, I've only bought slightly more than necessary and always comfortable and (multi)functional over classy/designer items.
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