I concur on the faith schools issue. Its my belief that children shouldnt be raised to have any religion. Let them choose when they are old enough to understand. Indoctrination is bad and unfair on the child.
sorry..........
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TonyL
Club Krautrock Plinque
In certain parts of America it's getting to the point that children are deliberately being taught lies in school, e.g. 'Noah's flood', dinosaurs being 6000 years old, creationism etc. I believe one can find equivalent fact-free beliefs in the Islamic world too, though I don't have sufficient knowledge of this religion to be able to site specific examples.
Teaching fantasy, rhetoric and misinformation as fact in school is IMHO far worse than not teaching at all. If religion is to be taught in schools it should be from a hard historical and factual basis only, e.g. religion X is founded on these non-provable / disproven beliefs, it controls it's followers with these so called "laws" and is responsible for Y number of wars and murders throughout it's history etc. Schools should stick to what these things are and avoid the rhetoric and brainwashing entirely – if the child is still interested at age 18 then it is their choice if they want to reject science and reality and live in a fantasy world. Before that date it is IMHO the responsibility of the state to ensure they do not.
Tony.
(...has anyone spotted I'm an atheist yet?)
7_V
I want a Linn - in a DB9
Of course, the teaching of atheism should also be banned, or any 'isms' at all - communism, fascism, capitalism.
Also, many countries have historical narratives that could also be misconstrued as propaganda (and thus brainwashing) - the US, France, China, UK, Israel, everywhere, really. Best to ban the teaching of history altogether.
To ensure that damage to the children is kept to a minimum, any attempt to impart 'values' on to the kids should also be strongly resisted. The whole area is clearly fraught with difficulties. In fact, the only things we need to teach the children are arithmetic and reading (from totally neutral books - preaching neither Enid Blyton style colonialism or modern day multi-culturalism).
Perhaps it's best to keep children away from education altogether.
Also, many countries have historical narratives that could also be misconstrued as propaganda (and thus brainwashing) - the US, France, China, UK, Israel, everywhere, really. Best to ban the teaching of history altogether.
To ensure that damage to the children is kept to a minimum, any attempt to impart 'values' on to the kids should also be strongly resisted. The whole area is clearly fraught with difficulties. In fact, the only things we need to teach the children are arithmetic and reading (from totally neutral books - preaching neither Enid Blyton style colonialism or modern day multi-culturalism).
Perhaps it's best to keep children away from education altogether.
TonyL
Club Krautrock Plinque
Atheism is merely a term used to describe those who do not believe in superstition, witchcraft or religion. It is not something that can be taught – it is a state one arrives at by rejecting irrational teachings and fantasy. Everything else you mention can be classed as history or political theory and therefore clearly has a place in a classroom. It tends to be the religious who support book burning…
Tony.
I've just seen the videos and I feel physically sick. Religion of all forms is poisoning humanity and the sooner it is eradiated from the world, the better.
Rob and Tony have got it right. The first thing to do here in the UK is to ban all faith schools. That'd be a good start.
Rob and Tony have got it right. The first thing to do here in the UK is to ban all faith schools. That'd be a good start.
TonyL
Club Krautrock Plinque
I got a little into the first video and decided that I really didn't want to watch any further. I'm all to aware of how destructive and dangerous this religious stupidity is and watching the barbaric murder of some poor girl who simply had the courage to try and break free from the brainwashing of her peers is not going to alter my viewpoint in any way. There is IMHO nothing more dangerous in this world than religion – anything that can motivate a family to slaughter one of it's own for reasons of incoherent fantasy-world bullshit is so far beyond my powers of comprehension that I'm lost for words....
Tony.
Tony.
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If it were up to me, I would have the animals in the video forced to cut off their own **** and eat them, before being shot.
How many of us are sick of seeing more and more proof of how these so called religions (well lest be honest here, it is mostly islam, though most religions are responsible for terrible suffering of one form or another at one time or another - crusades anyone?) lead people to act in the most inhumane ways in the defence of their beleifs. ALL RELIGION in schools should be banned, it is nothing less than a form of indoctrination and leads to bullying and exclusion for many. I read in the news recently that there have been set up in many towns illegal "sharia" law courts, this must be stopped NOW, when is a single politician going to stand up and actually say what a large portion of the electorate are feeling??? enough is enough, the video simply proves the point, it has to stop.
How many of us are sick of seeing more and more proof of how these so called religions (well lest be honest here, it is mostly islam, though most religions are responsible for terrible suffering of one form or another at one time or another - crusades anyone?) lead people to act in the most inhumane ways in the defence of their beleifs. ALL RELIGION in schools should be banned, it is nothing less than a form of indoctrination and leads to bullying and exclusion for many. I read in the news recently that there have been set up in many towns illegal "sharia" law courts, this must be stopped NOW, when is a single politician going to stand up and actually say what a large portion of the electorate are feeling??? enough is enough, the video simply proves the point, it has to stop.
You made the right decision, it is truly horrible viewing.
I disagree, history (even religous history) should be a high priority in education (note: I suppose it helps having a headteacher wife who has a history degree!).
It is easy to diferentiaite faith from fact - lets stick to the facts!
Can you tell I'm an atheist as well.
Ultimately I hope there is a benevolent supreme being willing to look after me after Ive slipped my mortal coil. Its just that I dont believe there is one. Does that render me unsuitable when I die? How unchristian is that?
la toilette
Downright stupid
Bloody hell, I chose one vid in the middle and watched just a bit of it. What a bunch of murdering scum, truly below contempt, the world would be a better place without them. I agree with all the anti-religious views, I think the small amount of good that religion can do is far far outweighed by the suffering it causes, and the excuses it provides. I despise all these extremists, and that definitely includes the US bible belt morons with their basements full of weapons etc.
But it's more than just the violence, it's the lying church of all denominations protecting their own abusing clergy, bloody repeated hypocrisy throughout history, controlling and exploiting. I honestly wonder whether any of these church leaders actually believe in any of this shite, because I cannot see how any sensible person could.
But it's more than just the violence, it's the lying church of all denominations protecting their own abusing clergy, bloody repeated hypocrisy throughout history, controlling and exploiting. I honestly wonder whether any of these church leaders actually believe in any of this shite, because I cannot see how any sensible person could.
TonyL
Club Krautrock Plinque
It is perhaps unwise to get into a 'which religion is worst' thing – let us not forget the Ku Klux Klan, IRA, UDF, Hitler, plus all those nut-job cults and abortion clinic terrorists in America – all are associated with Christianity. It is also unwise to overlook the damage caused by propaganda – I personally consider the Catholic Church's deliberate lies and misinformation about condoms in Africa to be tantamount to mass genocide. The African AIDS epidemic could possibly have been controlled in the early days were it not for the vindictive lies relating to how the disease spread that stemmed directly from the Vatican. Stupid ideas can kill just as surely as stones.
Tony.
greg
Its a G thing
We get a fair few honour killings here too.
greg
Its a G thing
That's such bollox.
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That is why I cited, just as an example, the crusades. However, many of the other groups you mention merely use religion as an excuse for violence whereas whole countries are not normally governed by crazed religious mullahs such as we find with islam.
I also wholeheartedly agree with you on the AIDS situation in Africa - the catholic church should be brought to book over that one. I could say that my feeling is we should not have a situation where the people in power make the decisions based on a beleif, rather than good judgement.
Its possible ........
........but I still seems to me that girl died in an especially horrible way.
TonyL
Club Krautrock Plinque
Irrational religious belief systems are infiltrating the so called democratic governments of countries such as the US and UK – it has perhaps not got to the stage of certain Islamic states where there are religious lynchings in the street, but Bush, Blair etc are not that far behind with their Christian anti-science / anti-logic and desire to teach gibberish as fact in our schools.
I'd personally like to see the Catholic Church sued and bankrupted over it. There has to be the potential for a massive class action case for (corporate?) manslaughter. I'm no lawyer but over a large period of time the Catholic Church very clearly and deliberately spread lies about proven medical technology and as a direct result millions are dying or dead – as an entity they should be held directly accountable for their bullshit and made to pay compensation.
Tony.
Dev
Moderator
True, but I like to think that the vast majority of people here will quite rightly condemn them.
I couldn't be bothered to watch the videos, but I have to ask though, why would anyone record such a depressing thing. To show the world his disgust or self gratification?
