Suggestions on Phono Stage

[crobo]

Leonard,

The EAR 834P sounded rolled-off at the top end and darkish to my ears.

.

Thanks for all the suggestions. The Gram Amp 2 sounds interesting (price is in the park as well) and is available here - good no stuffing around with changing mains plugs. Can you comment on the difference the upgraded power supply makes to the stage?

Lawrie, what is the rest of your gear? One of the reasons I am looking at a stage is that the sound through the amp phono stage is a bit rolled off and lacking sparkle and this is not a characteristic in my system from the CD player.

Your musical tastes are similar to mine by the sound of it. Female vocal, piano and tenor sax are favourites. I really look for that presence in the midband - gut wrenching bass is not essential as long as what bass there is is clean and fast.

Cheers,


Chris

 

[leonard smalls]

Leonard,

In my system, the Era Gold V does not sound flat at all. It simply brings the music to life. On vinyl I listen to jazz, blues, instrumentals and vocals (especially female vocalists such as Ella Fitzgerald, Alison Krauss, Jennifer Warnes etc). I don't listen to rock or classical music unless the Eagles, Hell Freezes Over LP is regarded as rock. I also know a few people who have chosen the Era Gold V and the Era Gold V/Elevator step-up combo over the EAR 834P so I am not alone. Anyway, that's synergy for you and maybe, room acoustics.




Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.

Mebbe there's the difference...
I listen to lots of rock and "heavy" jazz/classical, but very little that might be considered mellow such as yer average bird singing (apart from Patti Smith ), and I don't like traditional hifi virtues - I've got back into a monitor-ish sound after hating it the whole time I used to work as a sound recordist!

 

[The Devil]

With your TT, I wouldn't bother with a dedicated phono stage because it's a long way downstream of what really matters.

If you want to upgrade, get a better TT.

 

[Lawrie]

Thanks for all the suggestions. The Gram Amp 2 sounds interesting (price is in the park as well) and is available here - good no stuffing around with changing mains plugs. Can you comment on the difference the upgraded power supply makes to the stage?

Lawrie, what is the rest of your gear? One of the reasons I am looking at a stage is that the sound through the amp phono stage is a bit rolled off and lacking sparkle and this is not a characteristic in my system from the CD player.

Your musical tastes are similar to mine by the sound of it. Female vocal, piano and tenor sax are favourites. I really look for that presence in the midband - gut wrenching bass is not essential as long as what bass there is is clean and fast.

Cheers,

Chris

Crobo,

The upgraded power supply simply opens up the music to reveal more details and music. I don't have all the audiophile terminology but I'm sure you get my drift. If I have the option to upgrade a power supply on a component, I always do that rather than messing around with things like interconnects as I believe that power rules O.K.

The rest of my gear is as follows: Michell Gyro SE turntable, modified SME IV tonearm, Grado The Reference 4.5mV moving-iron cartridge (obtained at less than ½ price Stateside), Trichord VC power supply, Graham Slee Era Gold V phono stage (of course) Karan Acoustics KA-I180 amp, Sonus Faber Signum speakers and M.J. Acoustics Reference 150 subwoofer. A very simple system that plays beautiful music to my ears.

Btw, we do indeed share musical tastes and how we like our music. The mid-band is the most important to me as well and if a component's mid-band sucks during auditioning, it goes back in the box. Like you I like my bass really tight and my treble crisp and open but not etched. You won't find any of the Graham Slee amps sounding rolled-off like the EAR 834P and I've heard them in several systems whose owners I know very well. As for the Lehmann, well it was like Sir Norman Nobody - the guy whom everyone noticed at the party but did not find interesting. Also it's input and output sockets are on opposite ends of the box making siting on the rack (with the cables) very awkward. Some designers, eh!



Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.

 

[Lawrie]

Mebbe there's the difference...
I listen to lots of rock and "heavy" jazz/classical, but very little that might be considered mellow such as yer average bird singing (apart from Patti Smith ), and I don't like traditional hifi virtues - I've got back into a monitor-ish sound after hating it the whole time I used to work as a sound recordist!

Leonard,

I believe we may be onto something here. The equipment remains the same in every system but the types of music we listen to determine how we view that component e.g. boring or engaging.

Yet, with so many debates on the merits and demerits of certain hifi components, you'd be amazed at how no mention is ever made on the type of music listened to via those components yet that's the main reason that some of us buy hifi in the first place - to listen to music and on that note ....................



Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.

 

[bottleneck]

Leonard,

I believe we may be onto something here. The equipment remains the same in every system but the types of music we listen to determine how we view that component e.g. boring or engaging.

Yet, with so many debates on the merits and demerits of certain hifi components, you'd be amazed at how no mention is ever made on the type of music listened to via those components yet that's the main reason that some of us buy hifi in the first place - to listen to music and on that note ....................



Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.

Lawrie, Im not so sure we are!! (onto something that is).

I like the music you mentioned - Alison Krauss etc, and I listen to it on vinyl. I also listen to music that Leonard likes.

I find valve phono stages engaging and interesting, and solid state ones more detailed, but waspish and lacklustre!

The 834P should be auditioned by anyone with the budget IMHO, and I also happily chose it over its solid state counterparts. As my system has improved, the 834P has shown itself to be consistently good.

Hopefully the original poster can get to listen to all quality options at his price point and make an informed decision based on personal experience - its the only way...

 

[Stuart]

Chris,

I took a punt on the Dino last year when looking for a 'stage. Given the paucity of options in this part of the world I bought blind on the basis of reviews (very dodgy approach I know) and the flexibility offered by the Dino. Pretty happy with it so far, although must admit I'm considering trying out a DV P75.

Wont bother trying to describe the sonic attributes of the Dino, but given we are local-ish you would be welcome to come over and listen for your self.

Stuart.

 

[bottleneck]

Hi Stuart, are you in Australia? Thats a very long way away for a visit (Bucks, England here)

Thanks for the offer though

Chris

 

[Lawrie]

Lawrie, Im not so sure we are!! (onto something that is).

I like the music you mentioned - Alison Krauss etc, and I listen to it on vinyl. I also listen to music that Leonard likes.

I find valve phono stages engaging and interesting, and solid state ones more detailed, but waspish and lacklustre!

The 834P should be auditioned by anyone with the budget IMHO, and I also happily chose it over its solid state counterparts. As my system has improved, the 834P has shown itself to be consistently good.

Hopefully the original poster can get to listen to all quality options at his price point and make an informed decision based on personal experience - its the only way...

Bottleneck,

Well, I'm sure we are onto something old chap, and you've just confirmed that even further. I don't listen to the music that Leonard likes which coincidentally, you also happen to like. Therefore, based on how I like my music to sound, I chose the Era Gold V over the EAR 834P. Whether you find valves "engaging and interesting, and solid state ones more detailed, but waspish and lacklustre", is irrelevant to this discussion as it is not a valves vs solid state discussion! The ERA Gold V smoked the EAR 834P in my system, using the music that I like to listen to. Perhaps, if I had Leonard's set-up and tastes in music, I may have gone for the EAR 834P. As I mentioned before, I am not alone in choosing the Era Gold V over the EAR 834P and this is here in Lawrieville. I wonder how many more are doing the same all over the world. In fact, a dealer I know has taken-in a few EAR 834P phono stages (from valve lovers) in part-exchange for the ERA Gold V/Elevator Step-Up combination. Go figure!!

So once again, our musical & personal preferences and overall system set-up determines how we rate the sound of a particular component be they valve or solid state hence why one man's "lacklustre" is another man's "engaging". So I think we are definitely onto something here with regards to musical preferences.

Btw, I agree that Crobo should listen to all the quality phono stage options out there and that includes the Graham Slee phono stages.

P.S. You are not by any chance upset that I did not find the EAR 834P engaging, are you?



Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.

 

[Lt Cdr Data]

I read in a review the 834p had killer bass, it didn't.
What I found was it was slightly brighter than an audio innovations s200, the transformers for moving coil were easily bettered by a external cheap transformer, but solid state stages like the dino were a bit more energetic in the transistor sense of the word. I found the dino had more solid bass, and was slightly hazy in the mid/top end, tho a very enjoyable stage.
Its all down to taste, bit like oral
They were all much of a muchness, I also played with an Iso and an Iso HR, great clarity in the mid, bass was shy compared to the dino.
Nothing really between them, I opted for valve at the time, myself, any would've been fine, no xp of slee.

 

[leonard smalls]

I read in a review the 834p had killer bass, it didn't.

It does in my system! Not boom type car stereo bass but differentiated without any bottom limit (no rumble filter!)
It also doesn't do spitty treble either - which is why it fits so nicely into my BBC monitor sound.. I found only the Lehmann and Brinkman stages to be anywhere near in terms of non-hifi rightness (rather than boom and tizz!)..
And to think when I first started buying hifi that's what I wanted..
How tastes change (but then I only used to listen to dub reggae)

 

[sideshowbob]

I had an 834P, very good for the money they command secondhand (£350-ish for the MM/MC stock ugly version without volume control). Bass certainly wasn't a problem.

You definitely lose a bit of detail, and, shock horror, I prefer solid state amplification when it comes to low-output MCs, but I could definitely live with an 834P again if I had to.

-- Ian

 

[Lt Cdr Data]

try it next to a dino with its xtrnal psu, then you will know it doesn't do as much bass!! bass isn't a problem, just on comparison, others reveal differing characters.
it could also be to do with cartridge matching, too. perhaps they react differently to the same/different cartridges??

you know, that's the funny thing about all of this, the presentation, the acclimatisation factor, you can a-b something, one can be clearly better or different, but you adapt to the other item and perfectly like it.

I am toying with 8 watts SET, and a naim nait 3, and the valves are better, yet I can adapt and listen to the naim, and its perfectly good, and enjoyable.

 

[The Devil]

I hated the Dino (with external psu) when I tried it, it seemed to smooth everything down, took the rough edges off. What I would call bad hi-fi.

In any event, putting a dedicated phono stage in to the system in question would be like fitting a Ferrari exhaust to a Mondeo.

 

[Stuart]

Thats a very long way away for a visit (Bucks, England here)

A long way, yes, but well worth it - although perhaps not in the middle of winter

 

[bottleneck]

Well, just goes to show how many people can try similar experiences and end up with different results!

I tried a variety of expensive step up transformers instead of the one built into te 834P (including one by TRON) and there wasnt any noticeable gain.

Fairly exhaustive demo-ing showed my that I prefered the warmer richer tone of a valve phono stage to any solid state equivelant. Others will prefer something else - thats up to them. Of course this particular post wasnt about valve vs solid state - and Im not saying it was, Im only putting my own view across that valve phono stages bring something new and exceptional to the world of amplifying a cartridge, and should be auditioned by one and all, even if rejected!

Lawrie, I dont mind at all which phono stage that you prefer. I've made my decision and Ive been really happy with it since day one. Im sure that for every person choosing a graham slee and other solid state counterparts over an EAR, there are as many the other way round - like Leonard and myself! As ever, this doesnt proove or disproove anything, other than a different preference - like you said really. The bit that I was disagreeing with is that musical choice dictates the outcome - I like all tastes and styles of music (almost!) and still came to prefer my 834p.

For my own choices, if budgets were limitless I would be looking at valve phono stages by Tron, Viva, Conrad Johnson and Graaf. Unfortunately they are not of course, and Im confident that I have the best choice for me in my budget.

Its always near-impossible to make reccomendations on the internet - in many ways its a futile task.. who knows what the person asking the question will prefer? Only him/her!

Whatever lets you.... enjoy the music!

 

[Lawrie]

Whatever lets you.... enjoy the music!

Hey Bottleneck,

That's my line! Anyway, I agree with you on two of the names you mentioned, Conrad Johnson & Graaf - pricey but good. Both phono stages, the CJ EV1 & Graaf GM70 are very good and in fact, a future amplification change should see the Conrad Johnson tube pre/tube power or tube pre/solid state power and the Graaf tube pre/powers being top of my list to audition. Bought second hand, those pre & power amps represent excellent value.



Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.

 

[Uncle Ants]

Hi Crobo,

Coming into this late, but I have a suggestion. Of course it may be an amplification issue, but there is also a slight possibility that your Vertcial Tracking Angle (VTA) may be a little out. The arm on the RPM6 has adjustable VTA I believe. If it sounds a tad less toppy than in the shop, its possible that your VTA is adjusted a little tail down. Raising it may sort it out ... and of course cost you nowt. Of course it may not be the problem at all, in which case back to pondering phono amps But its always worth trying something free before parting with the readies.

Good luck

Unc

 

[crobo]

Hi Crobo,

Coming into this late, but I have a suggestion. Of course it may be an amplification issue, but there is also a slight possibility that your Vertcial Tracking Angle (VTA) may be a little out. The arm on the RPM6 has adjustable VTA I believe. If it sounds a tad less toppy than in the shop, its possible that your VTA is adjusted a little tail down. Raising it may sort it out ... and of course cost you nowt. Of course it may not be the problem at all, in which case back to pondering phono amps But its always worth trying something free before parting with the readies.

Good luck

Unc

Thank you for the suggestion. I had also come to a similar conclusion that something may not have been adjusted correctly. I am going to take the T/T back to the shop and do some comparative listening with some different stages as well as through my built in stage to check out the problem.

BTW, how much did my wife pay you for that suggestion!

Cheers,


Chris

 

[johnhunt]