Terminology: what is ringing?

Coming back on topic....



The first signal is the ideal transient response for an op-amp, amplifier, buffer, etc...

The second is one where "ringing" has been caused by an unstable circuit (usually an op-amp circuit). The second signal also shows a real-world limited slew rate, although I've not defined a timebase.

This is the technical definition of ringing. As to whether everyone who uses the term to describe the sound of a system is describing the sound of this effect or something else is another matter.

 

DRAGGING this thread back on topic,

Ive never used the term 'ringing' for treble. My room was very poor acoustically (and is now just about alright).. and Id use the words Resonance, Honking, glare, or similar to describe what might be the same treble-glare effect of an under-damped room.

Theres definately a problem in describing a sound in writing in such a way that it will mean something to other people..

Chris

 

Eh? I've never heard that in my life other than "honking the [car] horn"

Or possibly "that [smell] honks"

Never heard it used in this way........

is it another bum joke?

Dragging the thread off topic again

 

MO, have you never encountered geese? They honk!

 

Sorry, I was going to contribute to this thread (the technical part) but I'm too tired after all the sleepless nights.

 

LMAO!

I've never heard a honking goose/geese in all my life!

I thought it was MOre of a squawwwwwwwwwwwwwwk and hissss!!!

And a sort of arr arr (with a click of the throat in there too).

Interested about speakers and ringing, what would be considered to be the MOst obvious one... the ringing caused by speaker/room interaction, or of the cabinet itself?

 

Bells ring. A good LP12 subchassis rings when tapped. Isaac's circuit is ringing when electrically tapped. Etc.

It's a loose description of an ill-defined class of resonance. Is a 'flutter echo' ringing? I don't know....

Paul

 

Iron/steel rings longer and at higher frequencies than, say, aluminium.

Thus the ferrous Effect is an added colouration to taste. Some swear by it as being beneficial to their enjoyment of music.

To my ears, resonant amplitude - the"technical" term for how much a given material can ring should be minimised. Wood and MDF (and also their paint/lacquer finishes) have more limited ringing properties than any metal or glass, but the most inert material in this regard would seem to be acrylic.

One-by-one, I intend to change my supporting shelves on my QS Ref rack from MDF finished in satin black paint, to acrylic. I've begun with the top shelf supporting my source component and I shall move down the audio food chain as and when...

The benefits of acrylic under my source component are already clearly audible, and most musically satisfying in a subtle but very charming way.

 

tones

i read it as meaning Mr Toy will change his painted MDF shelves to acrylic shelves.

 

Penance, you're absolutely correct - more haste, less speed. Sorry, Steven, my mistake, comments withdrawn. But, hey, is there a market for audiophile-grade paint? Improves sound? We could have a "warm" paint for "cold" systems and vice versa . The possibilities are endless!

 

My toolbox is on mana, and I'd be lying if I said it didn't 'Ring' cleaner when you threw a spanner back in the box.

 

Did anyone experience 'ringing' on his own system?
- How did you find out it was ringing and not the poor quality of a component for example?
- What did you do to eliminate it or what do you plan to do against it?

 

Titian,

Can we get to specifics?

Are you really talking here of a tiny, almost imperceptible flaw in the sound emerging from your system that you feel may be due to 'ringing'?

If so, please detail what exactly you are hearing in your system and under what circumstances. Then, I'm sure that we will be able to come up with something.

 

Steve
I really didn't want to be specific.
I was thinking that it would be nice if members would talk about their experiences with 'ringing'.
I would also write the experience I had lately but before waisting my time writing about it I wanted to see if this subject is of general interest.
Funny about the whole thing is that I was not aware that I had ringing: I thought it was the poor quality of digital until I tested a rack this weekend.
I also don't know if this is noticable to systems which the average of the people have. If it happens only to systems like mine I better keep this subject for myself.
In my case I am talking about the impurities in the music caused by the resonances of the components. But experiences about any other type of ringing is very welcome.

 

The problems with "ringing" that I've read about in connection with HiFi are the ringing that occurs as a result of the Finite Impulse Response (FIR) filters used in digital audio (DACs mainly). I don't understand it that well but you can get "normal" ringing where the ringing happens after the signal pulse (like in Isaacs diagram) and you can also get pre-ringing (which is apparently worse) where the ringing happens before the impulse signal.

You'll need to do some searches on the web about ringing and FIR filters but AFAIK it's not directly audible in the sense that someone could listen to a DAC and say "ah yes, there are some definite problems with ringing there".

Michael.

 

I don't think it's easy to tell that a system is ringing specifically. I would expect a speaker system with excessive ringing to sound slow or smeared and perhaps lacking in thwack. It all depends what's causing the ringing. If a rack were ringing and transferring this to the electronics by microphony then one might expect to hear a specific colouration at a particular frequency. But I'm not really an expert on the subject. I'm not aware of anything I would call ringing when listening to my own system.
The diagram posted by Isaac is a good example of what I understand ringing to be although his explanation of the cause differs. I think there can be many causes.

 

Indeed, there are probably more causes. I should have said "...may have been caused...".

As stated, I would expect ringing to manifest itself as a smearing of sharp transients, with a decay (ie they ring... funny that), depending on the time over which it happens.

I've certainly found improvements in how transients are presented in my system with work on supports. However, I believe this to be due to other effects than the electrical ringing effect I showed in the diagram.