The difference between mainstream HIFI, budget seperates, midrange and high end?

Quite right, and the point is that cable tests prove there is no objective difference, and the subjective improvements are purely imaginary.

 

Perhaps we disagree on what constitutes a tweak? I think of tweaks as things like changing interconnects, putting a mat on a CD, or using mains filters. I call it a tweak BECAUSE it makes a small difference, and often no difference at all. It wont change my enjoyment of the music, although I can understand it to be fun seeing what happens.

Room correction can make a substantial change to the sound, for better or worse, so I don't understand how anybody would call it a tweak. It can certainly change my enjoyment of the music, as can other significant changes. Not most tweaks though.

 

Personally, I doubt there's huge gains to be made with cable technology (other than connectors perhaps-and not huge) and I'm sure many manufacturers don't build them to standards all of which probably explains the perceived differences.

 

The room and how it performs is fundamental and often plays a greater part in the final sound than the system itself because room sonic effects are often greater than those between systems - even complete and quite different systems.

So definitely not a tweak!

 

Hi Dave,

I'm going to have to prise that crucifix from your cold, lifeless fingers!

;-)

P.S. Saw this, whilst rofl-ing (watching amusing car crash) elsewhere:

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-01-06

"Even sillier than expensive speaker wire is replacement AC power cords and most other power “conditioner†products. The sales claims sound logical: Noise and static can get into your gear through the power line and damage the sound. In severe cases it's possible for powerrelated clicks and buzzes to get into your system, but those are easily noticed. The suggestion that subtle changes in “clarity and presence†can occur is plain fraud. Indeed, every competent circuit designer knows how to filter out power line noise, and such protection is routinely added to all commercial audio products. Spending hundreds of dollars on a six-foot replacement power cord ignores the other hundred-odd feet of regular wire between the wall outlet and power pole."

Trust your ears..

 

Most of the experiments I've done have focused on vibration control AKA microphany.

I've come to regard as "tweaking" for my own purposes but the effects are far from minor (IME) and have substantially increased my enjoyment of music.

I have actually left the hobby for a bit, concious that I was perhaps spending a bit too much time on it. I spent more time than I care to report (last year) attempting (unsuccessfully) to fullfill an ambition to learn jive/rock and roll.

 

In your opinion, I think.

Take a look at the pink fish debate.

Quiet interesting.

As BD reasonably points out no one is suggesting that science knows nothing.

The indications are that that science doesn't know everything.



As someone said I woiuld jump of your cross, TD.

There are other things to devote your life to other than trying to prevent people from experimenting with their hifi.

 

LOL...if I lived in the UK I'd have you centering your CDS and 52's DINs in ten minutes tops. We'd also do something about that oil rig.

 

I'd never consider the room just a tweak or unimportant but I do wonder which would sound more real - Fiona Apple live in my tiled shower stall or a very good recording of Fiona on my favorite playback system in a good room?

 

Hello DavidF

No-one has been able to tell cables apart in a proper double-blind test. Randi's $million is still Randi's. People claim "huge" cable differences, but this doesn't hold up. Not my opinion.

I've seen the pfm "debate". Zero data, but subjective opinions. Waste of time.

"Science" doesn't know everything? True, but do you think we don't know what's going on in a bit of wire, David? Do you really believe that hi-fi cables and hi-fi systems present an impenetrable problem for modern-day scientists?

 

How about FA (the initials tell a story) with a very large apple in her mouth. Next door but one.

 

<big grin>

 

Hi James.

No, no one claiming huge diferences.

I don't know of any of these blind testa positive or other wise.

Undoubtedly, as they disprove your ideals!!!

I think the matter has been discussed james.

Time and time again

With respect, can't you think of anything else?

 

You cannot compare in that way.

You'd be quite shocked if you had a live performance in your living room, let alone the confines of a shower room!

You simply cannot transplant the dynamic range and shear scale of a live, unadulterated performance into a typical listening room and expect to enjoy the results.
You have to compress it and scale things down in order to make the performance listenable in a comfortable way in your home.

All systems give a version of reality but none do and none should give everything. I include the recording chain in the system.
Yes we want low distortion, low colouration and a system that interacts well with the chosen acoustic environment but you certainly don't want 'real' dynamics - you couldn't handle it nor would it be a very enjoyable experience. Incredibly fatiguing in fact.
Of course that is no excuse to go squashing the life out of every performance but it does call for skill on the part of the recording and mastering teams.
Our hi-fi systems should produce neatly packaged and exquisitely finished miniatures of the real thing. In that form they are readily digestible

 

Or on ZG.

 

Fully agree...

Sometimes I wonder if much of the small amount of hardness with my Naim rig is simply due to it's dynamic capabilities when played at higher volumes exciting room modes. Drop the gain and the problem goes away.

 

The cabledullards claim all sorts of things. Here's an incredibly stereotyped report of a mains cable (anonymised):

"The improvement was instantly noticeable. The first thing I noticed was bass notes, in fact all notes, had more distinctive texture, timing improved and rhythms on percussion seemed to make more sense."

Presumably cut 'n pasted from a hi-fi mag. That sort of thing fails to impress.

There are no positive blind tests of cables.

 

Hard to say but there could be several reasons.

Might be the room.
Could be mild peak clipping.
Could be driver distortion - particularly at the bottom end of a tweeter dome or the top end of a mid/woofer if the crossover slopes are mild.

What are the speakers on that system?

 

It's happened with Briks (two vintages), Kabers and now SBLs. Power amp is an olive 250 recapped in the last seven or eight years (and a LK-280 previously.) I know I've got a severe slap back or flutter echo problem but without the expertise or test instruments the best I can do is throw darts with home-made wall treatments and bookshelves strategically placed. I've been very successful narrowing the slap back zone to a spot where ceiling and wall meets between the speakers and behind my chair. Any additional treatment using my home-made solutions in this zone either looks like crap or overdampens killing all of the dynamics.

P.S. The hardness is only with piano and only on very dynamic recordings -many recordings unfortunately;-)

 

All of those speakers are a bit <diplomatic hat on> spiky in the mids and lower treble so a cure is going to be almost impossible IMO. A bit of hardness goes with the territory.