The difference between mainstream HIFI, budget seperates, midrange and high end?

[Dave Simpson]

All of those speakers are a bit <diplomatic hat on> spiky in the mids and lower treble so a cure is going to be almost impossible IMO. A bit of hardness goes with the territory.

No need to tip-toe, you're right on the money. I just haven't found other speakers quite as satisfying that don't exhibit the same problem. I'm making progress with respect to a balanced approach taming the reflections though it's a slow process.

 

[The Devil]

Naim power amps get a bit "shouty" if they are asked to do too much. Ditch the 250, together with your collection of Linn & Naim speakers, and get a nice pair of ATC 50/100A. All your problems will disappear, and you'll get a wider dynamic range, and no muddle. Seriously, dave, it's never too late for a decent stereo.

 

[Tenson]

FYI room modes don't disappear with less volume level - they are proportional to the input.

 

[Dave Simpson]

Naim power amps get a bit "shouty" if they are asked to do too much. Ditch the 250, together with your collection of Linn & Naim speakers, and get a nice pair of ATC 50/100A. All your problems will disappear, and you'll get a wider dynamic range, and no muddle. Seriously, dave, it's never too late for a decent stereo.

LOL...I've never experienced decent stereo before, why should i start now?

 

[Dave Simpson]

FYI room modes don't disappear with less volume level - they are proportional to the input.

I wouldn't doubt that; however, the sensation a D above middle C on the keyboard no longer resonates the structure like Christ's angels trumpeting the beginning of Armageddon when I lower the volume a bit.

 

[titian]

You simply cannot transplant the dynamic range and shear scale of a live, unadulterated performance into a typical listening room and expect to enjoy the results.
You have to compress it and scale things down in order to make the performance listenable in a comfortable way in your home.

I don't see any problems with dynamic ranges with classical music if you consider that, what a listener hears sitting in the 12th-15th row of a concert hall and further away.
But there again the room acoustics and the system quality are very important.

 

[The Devil]

LOL...I've never experienced decent stereo before, why should i start now?

Well, one of us thinks hi-fi is nowhere near the real thing, and the other doesn't. I think you would be very surprised at the gulf in performance.

Rgds,

 

[DavidF]

So you accept that it is at least possible for your auditory sense to be deluding you?

James, I have been wondering periodically over the last couple of days if you are able too enjoy anything for fear it might be deluding you.

e.g. a decent pint of ale......."oh no! I can't enjoy this! It might not be real" etc etc.

I wonder if you saw the recent pink fish poll regarding cables?

Poeple were asked if they could here a difference in cables (no more specific than that but presumably this is a crux of the matter and again presumably if one might sound difference t o the other its reasonably to assume one might be BETTER than the other).

I stand to be corrected but as I recall there were around 200 entries eventually. Of this approx three quarters stated they could here a difference between cables.

Had the number of posters been, say 10, I would have been happy to agree the poll was insignificant. I put it to you though, that 200 posters with a result of about 150 is (in statistical terms) a significant result.

My system has evolved massively over a period of some years. IMO quality cables has just been a part of that process.

 

[RobHolt]

I stand to be corrected but as I recall there were around 200 entries eventually. Of this approx three quarters stated they could here a difference between cables.

Had the number of posters been, say 10, I would have been happy to agree the poll was insignificant. I put it to you though, that 200 posters with a result of about 150 is (in statistical terms) a significant result.

Which test is this?

 

[DavidF]

as stated rob

 

[RobHolt]

as stated rob

Sorry, I thought you were referring to an actual test, not a user poll.

That poll has precisely zero worth, other than perhaps to confirm mass delusion!

Having said that, the question as put didn't help.
Simply asking if someone can hear differences between cables tells you precisely what?
Just about everyone accepts that you can manipulate LCR to change sound - its the rest where the disagreements occur and that it surely where the focus of the question should have been.
I think it was a desperate attempt by a Nordost owner looking to justify his expensive cable choice

 

[DavidF]

Sorry, I thought you were referring to an actual test, not a user poll.

That poll has precisely zero worth, other than perhaps to confirm mass delusion!

Having said that, the question as put didn't help.
Simply asking if someone can hear differences between cables tells you precisely what?
Just about everyone accepts that you can manipulate LCR to change sound - its the rest where the disagreements occur and that it surely where the focus of the question should have been.
I think it was a desperate attempt by a Nordost owner looking to justify his expensive cable choice

lol


If it had turned the other way you'd have been all over it!!!









Rob, I think you need to take a slightly more balancd view on this!

 

[DavidF]

Sorry, I thought you were referring to an actual test, not a user poll.

That poll has precisely zero worth, other than perhaps to confirm mass delusion!

Having said that, the question as put didn't help.
Simply asking if someone can hear differences between cables tells you precisely what?
Just about everyone accepts that you can manipulate LCR to change sound - its the rest where the disagreements occur and that it surely where the focus of the question should have been.
I think it was a desperate attempt by a Nordost owner looking to justify his expensive cable choice

own quote....

I wonder if you saw the recent pink fish poll regarding cables?


I don't think I set out to confuse.

Perhaps you had conveniently forgotten??

 

[RobHolt]

lol


If it had turned the other way you'd have been all over it!!!









Rob, I think you need to take a slightly more balancd view on this!

It couldn't possibly turn out any other way.

There is no balanced view where rubbish is concerned, though you can embrace it by all means David.

Perhaps you had conveniently forgotten??

No, I skim read your post and didn't notice it.
You seemed to be placing such weight on it that I naturally assumed you were referring to a proper controlled test.
My own fault, should have known better

 

[DavidF]

It couldn't possibly turn out any other way.

There is no balanced view where rubbish is concerned, though you can embrace it by all means David.



No, I skim read your post and didn't notice it.
You seemed to be placing such weight on it that I naturally assumed you were referring to a proper controlled test.
My own fault, should have known better

Need I say more?

With respect, your mind is obviousy blocked to any other ideas other than your present one.

 

[DavidF]

Sorry, I thought you were referring to an actual test, not a user poll.

That poll has precisely zero worth, other than perhaps to confirm mass delusion!

Having said that, the question as put didn't help.
Simply asking if someone can hear differences between cables tells you precisely what?
Just about everyone accepts that you can manipulate LCR to change sound - its the rest where the disagreements occur and that it surely where the focus of the question should have been.
I think it was a desperate attempt by a Nordost owner looking to justify his expensive cable choice

An extemely weak arguement.

The poll was taken over across section of pf posters, which includes doubters as well as so called "beleivers".

So, to say the 150 who posters "yes" are all deluded merely (again with repect) really just indicates your inability (or unwillingness) to accept the evidence before you.

 

[Tenson]

In a recent poll, the majority of people thought the Earth is flat. Therefore, it is.

 

[Dave Simpson]

In a poll long ago, scientists thought the solar system revolved around the Earth. Therefore it does.

 

[DavidF]

In a recent poll, the majority of people thought the Earth is flat. Therefore, it is.

You've confused me now, Simon.

Haven' t quite grasped your argument.


??

 

[The Devil]

In a poll long ago, scientists thought the solar system revolved around the Earth. Therefore it does.

With respect, dave, appealing to an incorrect scientific theory which is 500 years or more out of date doesn't really advance this discussion. You don't really believe that we don't yet know how electrical cables work, do you?

The finding in an internet poll that a bunch of hi-fi nerds think they can hear differences in bits of wire just tells us that they think they can hear differences in bits of wire. Therefore it is inconclusive. If even one of them actually could hear differences in a blinded test, then that would be interesting. But no-one (so far) can.