The Keyboard Music of Bach

Dear RdS and pe-zulu,

Speaking about harpsichords, the one used by Edward Parmentier in his English Suites is a strange marvel indeed, with a very distinctive sound. I believe it is a perfectly preserved model from around Bach's time, and most probably of German origin. Could this perhaps be the sound that Bach had in mind?

Personally, I found that I very much enjoy a harpsichord tuned to a meantone temperament eg, the Ruckers in Rousset's d'Anglebert cycle.

Also, thanks for the info on Froberger and Buxtehude.

Regards.

 

Dear sn66:

I do not know Parmentier's set. But I agree with you: a mean-tone tuned harpsichord is a pure marvel (provided that you stick to certain tonalities) because of the very pure intervals. Of course, when meant to sound distressed f#minor, for instance, it is anguishing to the extreme.

Again, I don't have my harpsichord with me, but I usually tune it Werkmeister precisely because of that. A bit difficult with Bach, but anyway, I stoped playing Bach last year...

Dear Pe-Zulu: I'll answer fully later. As usual your post deserves a lot of thought. I agree with the taradatatatatatataradatatatatatatarada, and so on.

One thing about th HIP. I don't think they are really very well informed. Siegbert Rampe yes (by the way: in answer to sn66: the records are worth buying just for organological reasons, but then you have to own a very good system, because the harpsichords (all historical and most interesting) are recorded from a few meters away and seem to lack brilliance (and they do, in lesser systems). For me, the most interesting part of his records was the organ. A Scherer, no less!! And what a strange, deep, not polyphonic at all sound! We know very little about organological (that is, as you probably know, refering to instruments) matters. We though Froberger would require a brilliant and fast sound. It is nothing of the kind: it is very strong, but rather muddy.

But to return to the harpsichords. I believe experts are really considering the possibility of Bach owning a 16' harpsichord. But the HIP people love too much their 8+8+4... Anyway, I listened to a Handel record played in a 16' period copy and it is extremely convincing. But, as far as I know, Handel's instrument was a 8+8+4 double...

A harpsichord maker (a rather well known one, I won't mention his name for discretion) told me bluntly: 'when these guys want to record something by Bach they don't seacrh or read anything about the matter: they just go and use a 'German' - Mietke-like - harpsichord. They really know nothing about it'.

That is sad. Anyway, the best ones are so good they could play on whatever kind of harpsichord they liked and get away with it!

Finally. Yes, the Zell is my all time favourite. Golden-red powders of sound. Even the case is beautiful (there is a very good photo in Alan Curtis's French and English suites)!

 

Dear RdS,

I do not believe that I've heard a Zell, or for that matter, a Grabner. Are there any readily-available recordings from Amazon that utilise these harpsichords? I also remember that you once mentioned a Ketil Haugsand recording of Bach's partitas that actually combined a Zell and Mietke.

BTW, if is not too inquisitive, where are you currently if you are not corresponding from home?

Dear pe-zulu,

I came across this recently (hope the link works). What do you think of the review?

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/NonVocal/Klavier-French-Rannou.htm

Regards.

 

Dear Sn66

Donald Satz compares Rannou with Cates, whom I don't know. I compared with Rousset. With this reservation I agree with the most of his words. Generally though I find more expression with Rannou than Satz does, but perhaps she pales in that respect in comparation to Cates, or perhaps I would find Cates overexpressive, I don't know. But the fact is, that I enjoyed Rannous French suites very much, and in the thread Bachs French suites, I wrote why.

As to Parmentiers WTC, Partitas and English suites I am still in doubt as to what to think. I am not yet convinced by him and need to listen more to him.

Some of the best recordings of the Zell are van Asperens Wohltemperierte Clavier (Virgin 4CD) and Curtis' English and French suites (Teldec 3CD). Curtis is the distinguished and elegant Leonhardt-pupil I wrote about some months ago.
As far as I remember Glen Wilsons Wohltemperierte was recorded on a fine Zell-copy (Teldec 4CD).

I can't for the moment recall any recording I know of on a Grabner.

Regards,

 

Dear RdS

Do you remember the title of the Händel record with period 16F harpsichord sound? I would like to aquire it if it is available. Perhaps it is Christopher Wood's (not Hogwood) recording for Saga (1960 mono) of the eight grand suites on a Robert Goble?

When I look into my discoteque, I find that wery few of the harpsichord recordings, I own, are played on a Mietke-kopy.
I listened recently to the van Asperen Goldbergs, and the Mietke sounds as a harpsichord, which has not been properly restored.
Maybe that is the problem.

Regards,

 

Dear pe-zulu,

I would tentatively recommend Cates's French Suites; however, I suggest that you listen to some samples before purchasing, especially of the allemandes, sarabandes and the loure. I do enjoy his set, although for me, Rousset's natural, unassuming and unforced style remains favourite. But when I'm in the mood for a very personal and individual interpretation (not just the embellishments, but the phrasing and tempi), I listen to Cates.

There seems to be two very different camps when it comes to solo recitals. The first one emphasises the development of musical ideas, the rhetoric, the phrasing, the conversation of the interpretation. To this camp would belong Parmentier and Cates, artists that are based in the US. The argument against them is that they are reluctant to let the music speak for itself, that the overriding purpose is to find something interesting and novel, and in their heavy-handedness, the music suffers.

European-based artists like Rousset and Gilbert belong to the second camp and seem to be more interested in the musical phrase. They try not to impose their individuality overtly upon the music. The main protest against these interpretations would be that they are unwilling to develope the music, preferring to play it in a very conventional manner.

BTW, the comments above are all IMHO and may possibly be nonsense.

I'm sure there are artists who travel the road in between with great style and insight eg, Leonhardt. Personally, I prefer to concentrate on the good points of an interpretation, which is why both schools of thought appeal to me. After all, this is Bach's music, which in itself, is intrinsically beautiful and heavenly.

Also, pe-zulu, thanks for the info, I will try to get Curtis's set.

 

Dear Sn66

I apologize for my late answer, I haven't been able to answer until now.

You are IMO in principle right in your thoughts above. I would say that there are three camps, counting the middle-of-the-road camp as no. two. And the limits are flowing. Gilbert (who is Canadian) e.g. is very rhetorical, but his means are very subtle.

I am always willing to listen to an artist who has some important things to say about the music, and I shall not deny that this to some extent is the case with Parmentier. But on the other hand he has got many irritating habits or shortcomings which IMO unfortunately are due to stylistical ignorance or insufficient working through the music. His articulation is often odd, and worst of all often inconsequent. His execution of ornaments is often questionable. Why (for instance) shorten the trills in the gigue of the first English Suite? But most of all I don't like his unstable tempo, most distracting in Das Wohltemperierte Clavier. Compare with Wolfgang Rübsam, who has recorded all Bachsuites for Naxos (on a Bösendorfer-piano). He is a very subjective interpretator too with well developed and sometimes very unexpected agogics, but compared with him Pamentier sounds like a well-meaning amateur. You may disagree with Rübsams intentions, but his high professionalism is never in doubt. With these reservations I shall not deny, that Parmentier in some way widened my wiew upon the Suites and Partitas, but I don't think I shall return to him often.

But I shall aquire Cates French, just of curiosity.

Regards,

 

Dear pe-zulu,

Welcome back! I do apologise for recommending Parmentier since he is not to your liking. I agree with many of your comments but I find his use of tempi (in the English Suites, I don't have his WTC) interesting and stylish. He does, however, take many liberties with his interpretation but the unorthodox reading intrigues me, and the harpsichord he uses emits a wondrous sound. Still, my apologies.

How would you rank him in the English Suites in comparison with the performances of Rousset, Rannou, Leonhardt, Rubsam, Curtis, Watchorn etc?

Regards.

 

Dear Sn66

No apologizing needed. I can't widen my horizon without running some risks, and I am willing to run the risk with Cates too. And as I wrote to Tones too: Don't hold your recommendations back.

I find Parmentier a bit amateurish and rank him lower in the English suites, than the others you mention, even if his English are more stylish than his WTC. It is true, that his instruments (and the recording) are marvellous. I shall elaborate this further next week, as soon as I have the time.

Regards,

 

Parmentier's WTC is indeed a bit disappointing but it is not a nightmare either. At least it is different and a good try.
Pe-zulu, are you familiar with Tilney's WTC? But I fear Ross' version is a must. It rocks! Unless you insist on a slow version (slow=profound, fast=superficial? But that's a mistake).

 

Dear Bat:

I know Tilney's WTC. It is rather odd. The first book is played on a Haas clavichord, not very beautiful. But then he plays so slowly he lets the notes extuinguish. Rather odd, but not at all repulsive. The second book is played on a Haas harpsichord, a very dull an blunt instrument. There is a snag, though. The order of the pieces is dictated by temperament, so you get a quite different order than in the usual WTC.

It is worth a listen, perhaps not a purchase.

P.S.: Asperen has just issued (Aeolus) the French suites. Has any one listened to te record?

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Dear sn66:

Gilberts COncedrto Italiano is played on a Grabner. The Zell can be heard in the first record of the Bach Tocattas by Asperen and, of course, the WTC. But the best record is the old Seon Fantasia Chromatica by Leonhardt, that gives you one of the three trully astounding versions of if.

Well, as I am not at home again (but at another place than when I wrote the previous post) I cannot tell you about the 'Mietke' Haugsand played. But it was make by Skowroneck, no less, which 'read' what remains of the instrument quite differently than most makers do.

Where am I? I keep being moved from prison to prison because I am a serial killer. They sometimes let me go home under police surveillance.

Now, in earnest, I have many houses, and keep moving about.

And PE-ZULU: The harpsichord I was talking about is played by Anthony Newmann for Sony, the 8 Handel Suites.

 

Tilney

Yes, I know Tilneys WTC well. Apart from the things RdS mentioned, I find Tilneys WTC reliable, but unfortunately yawning unimaginative as well, and his very slow tempo is no guarantee for expressivity. But on the other hand, a very fast tempo may often simplify the expressive content of the music. The sixth Brandenburg concerto, first movement by Rainer Goebel (DG)
is a fine example of this.

Regards,

 

Dear RdS

I haven't heard van Asperens French Suites, but his other Bach recordings, not the least his noble and elegant English Suites for Brilliant Classics (you never mentioned them), make me decide to aquire them.

I have never been fond of Anthony Newman, - to be honest I usually avoid him. Are his Händel suites from a musical point of wiew worth a listen?

Regards,

 

Dear Pe Zulu

I did not know Asperen had recorded the English Suites. I'll try to get them.

About Anthony Newman. He does not convince me either: he plays all very fast, and some of the more lyrical movemenst of the suites are, of course, spoilt. But even so, I feel that Handel suffers that kind of 'robust' approach better than Bach. The interest, however, is the harpsichord. A very full but brilliant 16', very different from an Ammer or Neupert, a rather singing (or capable of singing) instrument. Although I think Haendel had a Rückers, or something like that (therefore, probably, 8+4 & dogleged 8) the effect is quite astounding.

 

Scott Ross WTC 1

1 SCOTT ROSS'S WTC
I never new that Scott Ross had recorded the WTC. More, from what I heard it was played fast – that was a big surprise to me. I know Ross's playing foremost for his French clavecinistes, where he displays a somewhat hazy melancholy. So I ordered the records.
I managed to listen carefully to WTC 1 today. I took notes on every movement but I won't pester you with that. What is my main impression? There is a great sense of urgency, of tragedy and tension build up. Is there release? Not really: when the last fugue (Largo, but really played Andante) ends, you feel ill at ease. This is not a comfortable version of the WTC by any means. It is, indeed, very fast, but tragically, urgently so. And the temperament (I am not an expert, but it seemed Werkmeister III to me, although there are two cases where pitch is modified and the 4' is not always perfectly tuned; and I wonder if there are no further tuning problems).
It all begins with a perfect C major prelude, agogically logical and quite convincing. And then, you expect the first, calm fugue to follow. But it springs forward at a very brisk tempo. Odd, you say, but not bad... But then C minor is also fast (and rightly so), c# major just shows how good Ross technically was – it is perhaps the most difficult fugue of the WTC 1: it just flows, fast and briskly, before you. C # minor is tragic, somewhat relentless (as in Walcha I). The only case I truly didn't like was the e minor fugue: the prelude is extraordinary, terse, strong, very e-minorish; and than the fugue is a flimsy affair... The temperament – a really desperate one – doesn't agree with the way he plays. But was the only point (with the a minor fugue, rather boring, but the fugue itself is boring) that I can't understand. You will find despair (B b minor, with a real crescendo), a beautiful May day (G # major), fear and subsequent fight (f # minor, prelude and fugue), whimsical thoughts (G # minor) religious begging (the fugue of B b minor), as in Aus tieffer Not schrei ich zu dir (the De profundis clamavi), speculation and nostalgia (b major, fugue), the lot.
IMO, This is a must have.

 

Scott Ross' WTC II.

Well, less interesting, with some flops (the mystical e-major is murdered), and all the repeats in the preludes. I would stick to Leonhardt's miraculous version, or to Gilbert's majesty; or even to the sheer intensity of Walcha I.

Tuning issues are less irritating here, although the 4' is not always tuned right.

 

English suites

Trying to answer your question, I have listened almost exclusively to English suites this week, a magnificent experience, but I feel a little brainwashed now.

Seven sets until now, which are:

Leonhardts first version 1973 for DHM is played upon the Skrowronek after Dulcken, Leonhardt earlier favoured. It has a rather spiky sound.
The interpretation is one of the most impressive ever made. Relative calm tempi, introvert and reflective and with great breath of wiew but still strong attention to details. The allemandes meditative, with trace of Frobergers style. IMO the allemandes ought to be played rather slow, as he does, since I regard the standard suite i.e. allemande, courante, sarabande and gigue as a secular equivalent of the sonata da chiesa which has the standard sequence of movements: slow, fast, slow, faster. Although shorter articulated Leonhardts interpretation has much in common with Gilberts refined introvert style.

Leonhardts second version 1984 for EMI (Virgin)
is played on a restored french late baroque full sounding instrument. His wiew has changed considerably. More extrovert style, faster tempi, more rhytmic drive, often almost hypnotic in overall effect. I have never heard the prelude of suite 2 so effortless played. With this recording Leonhardt actually matches anyone as to virtuosity and grandeur. What a pity he didn't make the repeats exept in the sarabande of suite 4, which he models from the examples in suite 2 and 3.

Alan Curtis is a pupil of Leonhardt, His version is from a stylistic point of wiew much like Leonhardts second version, but much more dramatic and passionate with a high level of tension all through. Only suite 2 is a bit unsuccesful. You get the impression that he sat down at the instrument and started playing without first rehearsing, and there is a couple of wrong notes in the prelude and the allemande and courante are nervous. In the italian gigue he plays the da capo with all sorts of diminutions and embellishments making it sound like one of Scarlattis less interesting sonatas. But the other suites are tremendous listening.

Christiane Jaccottets version from 1984 is played on a relatively dry sounding Hans Ruckers. The first four suites ar played much like Leonhardts first version, calm with subtle expression. Wonderful pastoral mood of the first suite with the reflective allemande. The suites 5 and 6 are on the other hand extrovert and dramatic like Curtis, the gigue of suite 5 almost like a danse macabre and the sixth suite with strong tension ending desperately with the dispair of the gigue.
The recording is a little bright. I think close miking makes the partials too audible.

Fernando Valentis version from ca. 1955 is horrible. Instrument elephantine, style completely unacceptable, deserves oblivion.

And then I listened to a few versions played on piano.

Robert Levins version (1999 - part of the complete Haenssler edition) is fast, brilliant, stylish. Reminds me of Rousset, but Levin is much more inventive and expressive within the limits of good style. In fact he uses the piano in a very restrained way, and I wonder why he didn't choose to record the suites on a harpsichord.

And at last a version by the danish pianist Sverre Larsen. Tremendous fast and brilliant, but grey and undifferentiated in expression, almost a Staier approach, and for that reason indescribably dull all way through, Nothing to remember.

Status so far:
Leonhardt 1 and 2 mandatory.
Curtis and Jaccottet important supplementary listening.
Levin very interesting despite his use of piano.
Valenti and Larsen nothing to write about.

More versions will follow .
Regards,

 

Dear RdS,

I will look out for these records although it is inexplicably difficult to find Gilbert's records; I have been searching for his partitas to, as yet, no avail. Why do the recording companies not reissue such masterly performances by a premier interpretator of Bach? In the meantime, I did manage to listen to Alan Curtis's English and French Suites. Noteworthy interpretations and the harpsichord sounds intriguing. Will try to get Glen Wilson's WTC, in which I believe he also uses a Zell.

Listened to two Froberger records by Blandine Verlet and Siegbert Rampe respectively. Verlet's is a disturbing, emotional and superlative version and the harpsichord, the famous Colmar Ruckers (I think), sounds absolutely wonderful. Rampe's contains a very informative booklet and he uses many harpsichords and even a virginal. He plays very well, but the harpsichords sound a little distant and dull. Still, a worthy addition. RdS, is the Ruckers Verlet used the same as the one Rousset used in his d'Anglebert recording?

There is a Sophie Yates recording of Handel's harpsichord suites at my local record store. Since I know nothing of Handel's suites, is the interpretation a good one and would you recommend buying it?

BTW, I must mention, although this probably belongs in the WTC thread, that I have been listening to Leonhardt's WTC II. I have a very limited understanding of Bach's 48 and have only listened occasionally to various recordings, but for what it's worth, this is an absolutely magnificent interpretation. I had hitherto thought that the WTC was rather dry but this performance literally bursts with fire and passion. A must have, I believe.

Regards.

 

Dear pe-zulu,

With the exception of Leonhardt's second recording and Curtis's set, I have not heard the other versions you have mentioned. In essence, I agree with your views on Leonhardt's and Curtis's respective interpretations. I may be getting Leonhardt's first version soon and will comment on it thereafter. In light of your previous comments, I will also be listening to Rannou's, Watchorn's and Rubsam's sets a few more times.

Regards.