Vitamin, Mineral, and Herb Ban

Nice, simplistic line, there, Bumboy. However, is treatment necessary for cure? I would have thought it was.

I know people very senior in the Basel industry, and I have never encountered disease prolongation as a strategy. If it were, it would be sensationally short-sighted - the companies would end up shooting themselves in both feet and the head simultaneously.

 

Re: Re: An infinitely less knowledgable physician writes...

Didn't notice this one before, but just to mention that Linus Pauling, while a great scientist, is not an appropriate authority in this field. His first Nobel Prize was for chemistry, for his work on chemical bonding (his book "The nature of the chemical bond", is one of the great classics). The second prize (he is the only person to have won two prizes solo) was the Peace Prize, as a tireless worker for peace. So, a wholly admirable gentleman, but no expert in the field of medicine. Indeed, rather cranky and given to pet theories, such as the use of VERY large doses of ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) to prevent the common cold. I haven't researched the topic, but to the best of my knowledge, there remains no definitive proof of the efficacy of Vitamin C.

Given his increasing oddity with advancing years, I would treat any pronouncements by Prof. Pauling with great caution.

 

Again you are side-lining the issue. You are also patronising me. I am as smart as you or smarter. Don't assume otherwise. The issue here is whether the pharma industry is seeking to discredit and remove natural supplements from the market in an effort to increase it's profits and establish a monopoly. The issue is whether people should be able to supplement. The issue is whther they should be able to supplement with effective proven supplements.

If you care to read the documents on the alliance for health website, you will find the parliamentary minutes when the law was being voted on. Blair rigged the vote so that all those that opposed supplement regulation (the majority) would not get the chance to vote on this issue. They did this again recently when they rigged the tuition fee vote by bullying dissenters.

If you wish to support the alliance - read up on the issue. Don't side-line the argument.

Are you really saying that at board level the threat of competitors is really not being discussed and strategies are not being drawn to protect profits? Such a thing is not possible in these cut-throat global times when companies support harsh regimes and killing? Where Carlyle and co wage wars to build pipelines and gaurantee access to oil?

Please.. wake up and smelly da coffee.

 

Well, actually, I'm not sidelining anything. Personally, I have nothing against herbal remedies - I am in the fortunate position of needing neither herbal remedies nor drugs. I also know nothing about the debate you mention, because I don't live in the UK, so I can't comment on the rights and wrongs of that situation. Moreover, I have neither the time nor the interest to pursue the matter.

My only point is that I saw simplistic nonsense being spouted about an industry about which I actually do know something - I no longer work in it, but I have many friends and contacts in the Basel Pharma scene at all levels, and I see how the companies work. And it's nothing like the monolithic conspiracy against mankind you seem to think. Perfect it isn't, but neither is it the epitome of monopolistic evil that you appear to see.

I naturally have no objection to your continuing to believe this, if it makes you feel better, but it does rather give the impression that you just like a nice, simple conspiracy theory. Again, I have no argument with that.

Oh, and make mine tea - naturopath, of course.

 

Avoid 'Bush Teas', tones. These roger the liver.

Kava-kava was withdrawn from sale recently because it causes fatal liver failure. You are being legislated 'against', Mr Bumboy, for your own protection.

I would be uninterested to know where you got the statistic that pharmaceutical drugs are the 4th biggest killer on the planet. But I feel certain you will tell me anyway.

 

Precisely. AFAICT waht the EU is doing is basically to ask from purveyors of so-called nutritional supplements the same level of testing and documentation as from the purveyors of drugs. I can't see much wrong with that.

Your argument can be neatly turned around: why aren't you clamoring for the right to buy untested or unverified drugs from the pharamceutical industry, if you are indeed advocating consumer freedom of choice.

Bumboy (btw, are you an understudy to Buttman?), it was you who brought up the names of Dr. Rath and Prof. Pauling to bring force to your arguments. When tones and I attack those authorities (tones, my congratulations, you're doing this so much better than I ever could), you tell us they are not the issue. I believe it is you who is sidelining arguments in this debate.

 

Twinings Queen Mary for me!

 

devout Christians by the way

This actually marks them down, in my book!

 

Aha, but you are the Devil after all, and in the immortal words of Mandy Rice-Davies, you would, wouldn't you? I mentioned it because they clearly have no problems in working with drugs made by this monolithic evil cabal. Incidentally, one of Novartis's youngest and most successful lab heads (one of a very, very few people with a compound in development) is also a Christian - and what's worse, he's Scottish!

 

well it would wouldn't it you epitome of all evil you.

cheers

julian

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14677792&dopt=Abstract

"No evidence for irreversible liver damage (by kava kava) has been found."

http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1139/MR1139.appg.pdf

Adverse drug reactions are now the fourth biggest killer, after heart disease, cancer and stroke. The suggestion is that these are considerably under-reported, and the problem is actually much worse. ( JAMA, 1998; 279; 1200-05)
-- Journal of American Medical Association (JAMA) - 15 April 1998

http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/pharm.htm

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=13679089&dopt=Abstract

 

Selective citations will get you any answer you like.

 

I haven't been selective.

[EDIT my michaelab to remove personal insult]

 

Thank you for being so charming. I am trying to throw some light on your ridiculous conspiracy theories.

If you develop a life-threatening illness, what will you do? Take some herbs and hope it will go away, or seek proper advice? I think I know the answer.

One thing which you may not have considered is that everybody dies eventually of something. With advances in modern medicine, people are living longer, and have a higher cancer risk because of that.

 

bub,
any chance of prescribing a 'brompton cocktail' for use when i'm about to pop me clogs then?

cheers


julian

 

Only if I have some left over.

 

Typical UK doctor.

Quack quack quack....

Proper advice? Are you saying that pharmaceutical intervention is always the correct mode of action?

I have no idea what conspiracy therories you are referring to. I know the ring of truth when I hear it. I guess you agree with Hutton's findings also.

Rather than just quack, pove it is conspiracy.

http://www.alliance-natural-health.org/

 

did somebody say something? i thought i heard.... naaaaah
cheers


julian

 

Gary - if you can't have this discussion without insulting people just because they don't agree with you then don't have it or you'll be banned again

Michael.