zerogain name change -hi fi rage

Status
Not open for further replies.
ShinOBIWAN said:
The DEQX hardware and software is knocking on for 5 years old now. When it hit the scene all those years ago it was revolutionary. In the digital world time isn't kind though.

I think the main issue to take is the 32bit processing(20bit in some places). Nowadays we're looking at 64bit which are less prone to rounding errors and have far higher precision leading to more transparent processing.

Then looks at the DAC's in the DEQX, 107dB Dynamic range and -100dB THD+N aren't particularly impressive now. You can of course add an outboard DAC but you need to figure that on top of the £2k admission fee for the DEQX.

The DSP processing horsepower isn't comparable to today's best solution. This means you don't have the necessary clout to process higher quality filters and the software itself doesn't incorporate the recent advancements in psychoacoustic filtering and the more advanced driver and room corrections.

All in all its looking a little dated now.

For the moment, the best and most advanced correction solutions are all PC based using high quality filters generated by specialist software which are passed through convolvers using the ASIO transport and then out through studio grade soundcards and converters. If this is the route that your wanting to take then it doesn't get any better than this.

I'm an ex DEQX user and can say its a further refinement in sound. Most TACT/DEQX users also seem to migrate to the PC if they find this approach to their liking and others like Mike prefer firmly rooted and mature solutions such analogue.

I think all the digital approaches to loudspeaker and room correction are in a relatively early stage of development. The groundwork has been laid by product such as the DEQX and Tact but the sound and technology needs to mature. There's no doubt that this is the future of the highest fidelity playback, surpassing all others but there's some way to go before that's a reality. Things can only get better right now whereas analogue solutions can be considered mature with very little real advancement in recent years but already the current best digital crossover and correction surpass analogue in some areas.

I'm sure in another 50 to 100 years analogue will have virtually disappeared and there will be impossibly advanced digital methods. Its exciting to be at the start of something that will become the future.
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the trouble to give such a comprehensive reply. What software and hardware do you use? I like the idea of a PC based solution as it allows an easier upgrade path as the technology develops. Is it mature enough for a wider audience yet or only suitable for the experienced diy'r? I can't wait 50 to 100 years for the complete numpty version :)
 
bemcsa said:
Thanks for taking the trouble to give such a comprehensive reply. What software and hardware do you use? I like the idea of a PC based solution as it allows an easier upgrade path as the technology develops. Is it mature enough for a wider audience yet or only suitable for the experienced diy'r? I can't wait 50 to 100 years for the complete numpty version :)
Click to expand...

The PC route is a little complicated but not overly so. Learning the software and selecting the right hardware can be involved if your treading this path for the first time. The hardest part is getting quality accurate measurements since the success of the entire exercise hinges on these. But once setup you can forget about touching it again.

There's a few pieces of software out there that will either create filters to use convolvers(fancy word for a program that passes audio in one end, applies the filter and out it comes at the other end.) These vary in complexity, cost and quality.

Acourate

http://www.acourate.com

Widely acknowledged as the best is Acourate, written by Dr. Ulrich Bruggemann, and the one I prefer. Brilliant program that can do impressive things to the behaviour of a loudspeaker and its interaction with the room. The examples shown at the top of the last page are of Acourate in action. Cost is £240 for the program. This can generate either linear phase or minimum phase filters.



Audiolense

http://www.juicehifi.com/goxpage00000013.html

msmcorrtargetestimatefullrange.jpg


Very similar to but not as powerful or flexible as Acourate is Audiolense. However what it loses out on it gains with ease of use and is very simple to operate with most functions being automated. A nice touch is that it has ability to room correct an entire multichannel setup on a per speaker, per driver basis. Cost is around £250.



Frequency Allocator

http://www.thuneau.com/allocator.htm

alloc_lg.gif


If you want IIR min phase filters in an easy to use package then Frequency Allocator is a great choice. The speed at which you can get nice sounding results is frightening and because of that speed I use this to initially prototype crossovers, explore configuration and generally find what works and doesn't before delving into the intricate final setup generated Acourate. Cost is £85.



Others

Aside from these there's also a hell of lot of studio orientated ASIO plugins that can be stringed together to do the job. Things such linear phase EQ's, parametric EQ's, compressors and even FX are all candidates willing to be shoehorned into creating crossovers and correction solutions. The downside here is that it relies greatly on your ability to know just what is happening and what you what and how to achieve it. In light of specific software I don't think this route is worth pursuing any more, although this was once the only route up until about a year and half ago. It works very well but takes a hell of a lot setting up and effort.

The main companies that produce quality plugins that work well for crossover and correction are:

http://www.waves.com/
http://www.voxengo.com/

The waves stuff is extremely expensive but equally well respected and is found in professional studio's where a good chunk of music and movie soundtracks are manipulated with their tools. I think the full suite of Waves plugins is about £7k!

All of the above methods need an ASIO host and compatible soundcard.

For the host I'd highly recommend:

Console

http://console.jp/en/index.html

sc2_l.gif


Bidule

http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=35

Multichannel.png


Acourate and Audiolense also need a convolver plugin to run generated impulses from within your ASIO host:

http://convolver.sourceforge.net/index.html

For the sound card I'd highly recommend either an external sound interface or an internal one passing digital to an outboard DAC. Possibly solutions are the EMU 1820m(£350) which has the very top of the range Crystal and AKM converters and sounds sublime, the RME Fireface 800(£900) or if your going the digital out with external DAC then the RME HDSP9652(£350) with Apogee DA16x(£2200) is formidable. I use or have used all the above solutions and can vouch for their suitability for the intended purpose. Many soundcards are impossibly to make work correctly for this task so be careful. Anything vaguely consumer probably won't work and especially anything with 'Soundblaster' on the box.
 
I have to say I am a little disappointed that the Tact is not as well regarded as I thought?

I thought that it was regarded as one of the best solutions to difficult rooms for the average consumer, due to its ADC and DAC sections and the ease with which it seems to do room correction?

The only reason I was put off was that I couldn't seem to get a straight answer of its performance against £7k of analogue pre and DAC. I think it was then that DEQX and PC was mentioned and I thought too complex and left it.

The idea of a pre amp which does all the correction is appealing, particulary with my room and Kef R-107, as of course I would be able to bypass the Kube and use fully balanced throughout. the other option of course would be some sort of room EQ which is transparent enough to go between pre and power.

I would rather not see a PC in constant use, though having a program to watch the room/speaker behavour would be interesting.

I still wonder if saving for Tact would be worthwhile, though I am sure it would be swings and roundabouts in a sort of sideways step. Though as Stereo MC says, it may not be long till 128bit, and maybe more stuff like Tact will become available with better technology.

Still though, the simplicity of a decent CD/DVD transport with TACT 2.2 and active ATC SCM50 sounds so appealing when you have kids, too many boxes, and not enough space :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top