10 rock albums Classical fans must own

[lordsummit]

Right I'll start by saying if you want violin virtuosity you can start with some of the Biber Mystery Sonatas and then move on to the Paganini Caprices. In them you'll hear violinists playing just as fast as that unmusical guitar bloke Malmsteen, in fact I remember him having a penchant for playing Bach rather badly.

As for music and scales it's simple. Most Western Art Music is based around the diatonic system which has 8. Your average heavy-metal neanderthal will use the penatatonic scale to make his solo with, and that only has 5 notes in it. Clever cavemen use modes which do have 8 notes in, but harking back to medieval plainchant. The point being the Diatonic scales are harder to use as they have inherent in them a sense of direction, therefore you have to consider there use carefully

 

[lordsummit]

Not a clue wrote

Saxon v Mozart is a close one. Both pretty poor. Saxon did write 'Strangers in the Night' which is cool and might edge it in their favour for some people (was that the track you were thinking of, Saab? It's my favourite Saxon number). But Mozart probably did some nice piano stuff or something. I'd call it even.

Are you Lowrider in disguise

 

[wadia-miester]

Lord,

You be careful here, you knocking on the door of the "D & D forum" for your style of supreme aloofness and masterful arrogance, the slope is very slippy here , Its a long way to fall from that pedistal
YM is bollox without question, however there are a few decent guitarists which are damn good, even when not playing 'Neanderthal music', they are trained in the 16/17th 'Pop music manifestations' and have successfuly inter-twined the 2 envelopes with recoarse to over analification of both the said groups
And you wonder why many Classical lovers come across Harpers & Queens when in fact when they've sampled some of the other musical wares on offer, it does in fact give them 'Pause for thought'

 

[lordsummit]

Oh I agree there are a few guitarists who are damn good. Was it Vernon Reeve from Living Color? I liked them, and of course I am partial to the RHCP's. Fraid though my taste is more for the songwriters of the pop world, although I shame-facedly admit to enjoying the Stereophonics at the Move festival having only gone to see the Pixies.
Don't misunderstand me WM, it's the deification (should that be defacation?) of crap rock bands, YM and his bastard offspring Joe Satriani and Stevie Vai that annoy me

 

[domfjbrown]

Not that note density has anything to do with anything - technical skill in terms of twisting your way up and down your fingerboard doesn't make for music. Just look at Hendrix's output

WOAH!!! This is WAR!!!

First off, being diplomatic and cautious, as always, I'll state my view.

CLASSICAL MUSIC SUCKS.

There are only 2 exceptions I've heard that I can put up with - Grieg's "In the hall of the mountain king" and the whole of Elgar's Cello Concerto. Beethoven is one of those "great openers, shame about the boring 99% of the rest of the piece" people. Mozart-type stuff, and that godawful choral crap with harpsichords (note - I love the harpsichord - just hate the way it's played on this stuff - what is it - champer-pot music or something?) just makes me want to garrot myself with a breezeblock (impossible, but more entertaining than that "music").

However, I'm open to hearing some "banging" classical - ie, I like the Grieg piece as it has similar building tension and groove to psy-trance or better techno - most classical ambles along at a dead pensioner on a Sunday pace, but this is different. Maybe I should try getting into stuff like Mahler?

Violin has to be the best all-round classical instrument; piano's good, but not very portable! If you want to hear violin heavy-metal(ish) style, listen to Kate Bush's "Violin" off of "Never for ever". In fact, whoever mentioned "The kick inside" is wrong - I reckon "Lionheart" or "The dreaming" are rockier.

"Black dog" is awesome - IMHO it wees all over any classical piece. Sure Plant's singing is raucous, but who cares when the drums sound that great? Whoever said Coverdale was better than Plant is so right - Whitesnake, err, rock.

 

[wadia-miester]

YM and his bastard offspring Joe Satriani and Stevie Vai that annoy me

I'll think you'll find YM was at it before JS, Vai blows hot & cold, and tries to be too flash and naim like (In yer face) its the American way and sadly fails more times than most
Randy Rhoads was very good, but his unfortunate demise at an early age put paid to any furture greatness
Another guy that was good, but went 'Way out west' was Janik Gers, I saw him at the reading Festival in 80, good gig.

 

[lordsummit]

I saw Janik Gers playing with Fish, must have been about 1989. Didn't he do a spell with the Maiden. Now there is a rock band.

I'll think you'll find YM was at it before JS

Hence offspring

Dom you're wrong. You just haven't learnt to appreciate it yet. If you like in the hall of the mountain king, I've got a dodgy CD (ie I don't like it, I'm willing to send you or a copy of) that's called heavy classiks. It was one of these dodgy marketing things that I got by mistake from Britannia. PM me your address and I'll wing it off to you. Might give you a few ideas.

Anyway if you want war here you go

Banging Techno Sucks

All it does is go

Doof Doof Doof

 

[notaclue]

WOAH!!! This is WAR!!!

First off, being diplomatic and cautious, as always, I'll state my view.

CLASSICAL MUSIC SUCKS.

Some classical music is good but, in today's world, we can safely file most classical music under 'historical curiosity'. A bit like men wearing curly wigs and painting their faces white.

People weren't very good at a lot of things in the 'olden days'. Not their fault. Just how things were. E.g. medicine is much better today. Science, technology. And so is music. And TV, too. I guess in the olden days they painted pretty well, though. Of course, traditional/folk music is excluded as that is the real music that classical fans like to think classical music is. In fact, classical music isn't real music, it is unreal music. Especially opera. Opera is just pants.

On the 'metally' guitar question, I think Dave Navarro of Jane's Addiction is an excellent guitarist.

 

[lordsummit]

A bit like men wearing curly wigs and painting their faces white

Sounds quite a lot like most heavy metal musicians. Add to that a penchant for wearing trousers that are too tight, and I think the similiarities soon become apparent.

Opera is just pants.

The operatic tradition is one of the pinnacles of Western Art Music, along with the symphonic one. The trouble with rock and pop music is that it peaked early, You've got the Beatles, The Stones and Elvis etc, and everyone is now trying to match that standard. I see little real development tbh. A lot of good bands and good songs, but not much that's great.

Julian you have my sympathy by the way. The Ring at age ten could well be considered child abuse. I'd see a social worker

 

[notaclue]

Opera is an interesting historical curiosity but musically it is just a horrible noise. I imagine it was quite good at the time but today people expect (and get) better entertainment. People only go to opera today 'cos they are posh. The ones who go who aren't posh are probably just wanting a nice evening out and not going for the music.

 

[wadia-miester]

I saw Janik Gers playing with Fish, must have been about 1989. Didn't he do a spell with the Maiden. Now there is a rock band.

Lord,

Fish the guy redefines Scottish serial pisshead
Maiden, never really did anything for me. though my only claim to fame here I saw them on their Killers Tour 79' when they played 'Eves' nite club in Chelt, I managed to sneak past the bouncers aged 13, mind you It was that rough, the Expolited played there only a few weeks previously, Wattie doing a moonie was a sight to behold

 

[lordsummit]

Fish the guy redefines Scottish serial pisshead

Indeed, saw Marillion 3 or 4 times as a spotty teenager, they always gave value for money. Their last album clutching at straws deserves to be a sort of classic in my opinion. Just listening to some Yes now. Now maybe there's a band with classical pretentions. Am going to ignore Notaclue as the name obviously says it all. Just a closed minded bigot who exists in a world of stereotypes.

 

[wadia-miester]

Lord,

I saw Flavadmousnian (Can never spell it ) earlier in the year at the Oxford Apollo (brought up to date) very good it was too
I saw Marillion twice, one cracking show, the other shite,(not down to fish either) the band were just havin a Bub nite

Another 'memorable show' was Gillian at the Glos Leisure centre in 81

 

[notaclue]

But people who go to opera are usually posh. I didn't say that this was bad. It's just the way things are. E.g. http://www.rbkc.gov.uk/ohpfeatures/general/bringing_a_new_audience_to_opera.asp and quote "Abdelsalam (aged 17) : ââ'¬Å"It was a really good experience and it was the first time I had been to the opera. Everyone was very posh."

 

[lordsummit]

So Notaclue you are willing to quote the perceptive observations of a 17 year old at me. Well believe me I've played in the pit at some of these 'posh' opera houses and the audience are not all posh, it depends on where you sit. Face it you've never really listened to classical music and you can't be bothered to be challenged by it, therefore it's rubbish. What I like is good, what I don't like is bad. Are going to go out and play this school holiday? or won't your mum let you?

 

[domfjbrown]

Dom you're wrong. You just haven't learnt to appreciate it yet. If you like in the hall of the mountain king, I've got a dodgy CD (ie I don't like it, I'm willing to send you or a copy of) that's called heavy classiks. It was one of these dodgy marketing things that I got by mistake from Britannia. PM me your address and I'll wing it off to you. Might give you a few ideas.

Anyway if you want war here you go

Banging Techno Sucks

All it does is go

Doof Doof Doof

MOST banging techno does that - but, as with psy-trance, there is the odd act who DO do something with it. You just have to weed through the chaff to get there

Nice one re the CD - I'll PM you (and get you a beer at the next hifi show - as I'll defo be doing a September one).

Re Opera - yeah, it can be quite intimidating and not easily accessable. That said, Wagner's March of the Valkyres(sp?) at Glastonbury was a very happy surprise - really enjoyed it. I can see why people don't like Wagner though

Definitely agreed about pop and rock music peaking too soon. And of course now it's all rehash rehash rehash!

 

[lordsummit]

Well done Dom, and you've got a corner

 

[notaclue]

So Notaclue you are willing to quote the perceptive observations of a 17 year old at me. Well believe me I've played in the pit at some of these 'posh' opera houses and the audience are not all posh, it depends on where you sit. Face it you've never really listened to classical music and you can't be bothered to be challenged by it, therefore it's rubbish. What I like is good, what I don't like is bad. Are going to go out and play this school holiday? or won't your mum let you?

She won't let me

If there was a curfew imposed on 'posh' people or they were all placed under house arrest, opera audiences would drop very sharply. Of course, some people would still go. But they'd be more curious. They would go just to "have a look", as it were.

 

[lordsummit]

I don't understand this notion of posh. When I go to concerts I see a lot of people like me, and the people I know who go are similair to me, ie the demographic woud be either professional and educated, or older retired and educated. Bizarrely enough a lot of the gigs I go to see are populated be similair people. So am I one of those posh people?
Sounds like you're envious of them.

Do you have 'posh' envy. Maybe you were deprived of caviar as a child

 

[notaclue]

Posh people are OK. They are just like normal people. Only posher. They often go to opera because that's what posh people do. They like polo, as well. Some of them drink wine. Others prefer champagne. They don't like beer, though.

Also, it is very expensive and awkward to create and put on an opera. So it's never been the music of 'the people'.