2nd hand CD player experimentations

Originally posted by sideshowbob
Us sophisticates prefer "neutral".
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Not a sophisticate, but I do agree. I also much prefer neutral, but only if it's in Champagne Gold and has VU meters- blinging plinque in fact.
Rooms are a very big part of the EQuation. There is no doubt about this, but, we adjust to room acoustics and system sounds. The brain provides the best EQ in the audio chain.
 
Have you tried placing absorbers behind the speakers?


Given that you are willing to experiment, this would be an easy experiment to perform.

I've played around with a number of room acoustic treatments and absorbers behind the speaker clearly reduced the treble emphasis. I didn't like it myself:p but the effect was there.


Buy yourself some rockwool panels from your nearest Wickes and chuck a couple behind the speakers.


Personally, I'd be tempted to try different cables/power leads and i/cs before swapping the CD player.
 
Upon reflection (and much listening), it increasingly seems the effect is primarily recording-dependent - some recordings sounding stunning and absolutely spot on, others exhibiting this overenergetic treble. This would presumably indicate the system is just telling it like it is and that the recordings are at fault (which is exactly what I want from my system).

That said, my Sennheiser HD-600 headphones also differ greatly from recording to recording but almost never have any problems with brightness at all, and tend to sound very natural and realistic (though without the dynamics, presence, bass power, or sheer grunt of the ATCs), so I'm having a hard time deciding which sound is "right"... Other than the treble, the ATCs and Senns sound remarkably similar, tonally. They're also both frequently used as pro monitors. Perhaps this is an indication that it is room acoustics after all..?

I've also heard Dynaudio BM-15s in my system (in this room) and they didn't have any problems with excess treble, though they are known for being somewhat more "relaxed" in the upper frequencies than most studio monitors, so it's probably not saying much...

Sigh.

I like the idea of rockwool. I'll have to see if there are any shops nearby that sell it cheap. As I said, I've currently got a duvet up there at the moment, and it kinda/sorta/maybe improved soundstage depth, but didn't tame the treble in the least.

Anyway, the whole thing with the CD player was that I've read that the 507 can have a tendency to sound on the lean/bright side so, seeing as my experience of other CD players is very limited in my system, I just thought I'd have a look around and see what other sorts of presentations are out there. I'm hoping to get a local dealer to lend me some units on home dem as I'd much rather not sell the Meridian until and unless I hear something that I definitely prefer.

Certainly the Meridian is a top notch player, and I like what it does, I've just been 'plagued with flies' so to speak by said reviews. So this is mostly just to satisfy my curiosity.

Can anyone else with experience of the 507 (especially with ATC speakers!), and particularly in comparison to comparable players, confirm or deny whether they thought it sounded "lean" or "bright" at all..? If I get a lot of people saying 'no' I might just be persuaded to drop this whole endeavour. :)

Dunc

P.S. - Amusingly enough, maybe I just need some tone controls. ;)
 
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I haven't heard your CDP, but Meridian have a pretty good reputation.

ISTM that people who have CD-only front ends tend to believe that there are big differences between CDPs. Conversely, people who have turntables as well are perhaps rather less aware of any great differences.

Anyway, if I were you, Duncan, you know what I would & wouldn't do.
 
Originally posted by The Devil
Anyway, if I were you, Duncan, you know what I would & wouldn't do.
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Yes indeedy, and I do plan on investigating those options once I get my hands on some cash, but it could be a while before anything like that happens......

For now I'm just going to play with things that don't cost anything.

Dunc
 
Originally posted by dunkyboy
For now I'm just going to play with things that don't cost anything.
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I think that is by far the best option. I also think that your system is of unimpeachable quality, at least on paper, and any 'problems' you have are almost certainly on the recordings, as it doesn't seem to occur on all CDs.

Good old ATC, eh?
 
If you are using the 20s on the ATC stands I would change them, they do them no favours. You may be surprised how much difference this can make, an old pair of Sara or Heybrook stands should work well if you can pick any up cheap, or buying new, the stands for the Epos M12 would be the biz.
 
The standard ATC stands I think are just rebadged Atacama Nexus 6s. I had Atacama SE24s (the next ones up, and filled with sand for about 13kg of mass each). These were fine until I discovered an old pair of Target R6s (I believe... not sure really, but old sturdy-ass Targets supposedly around £275 new and about 25kg each) which completely blew the Atacamas out of the water in a most surprising way. Nothing to do with treble incidentally, more to do with soundstage solidity and believability, but in a surprisingly big way. So, I'm not really worried that the stands are deficient. Perhaps one day I'll find something that does the job better, but I have no doubt that I couldn't afford it at the moment.

Anyway, I'll see what my local hifi shops have to offer CD player-wise and mebbe give 'em a spin if there's anything of interest. Otherwise I'll just wait till I can afford some proper room treatment. I'll be sure to keep y'all up to date with whatever wonders I discover.

Dunc

P.S. - I've had a fair bit of Lagavulin this evenign so my typing may not be quite up to its usual impeccable standards..... Blimey if that ain't a lovely whisky though...
 
I've just tried 12 Auralex DST-112 acoustic treatment panels, 1ft Sq each, 3 vertically behind each speaker and three horizontally to the side wall of each speaker at around head height when in the listening position.

It certainly tames the upper frequencies and provides a more neutral and more natural sound to my whole system.

I picked up 18 panels for £68... which makes it cheaper to experiment with than most interconnect/speaker/mains cable 'upgrades'.

I have to agree with several of the comments above, if your room is fundamentally (and negatively) influencing the sound of your system, surely it makes sense to address that problem before turning to the components used within it?
 
I have to agree with several of the comments above, if your room is fundamentally (and negatively) influencing the sound of your system, surely it makes sense to address that problem before turning to the components used within it?
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I do agree, however the point I was trying to make previously was that often the room is blamed exlusively as a cause of unsatisfactory sound, when it isn't always the only cause.

Incidentally, these Auralex panels sound interesting, where's the best place to get more info and who supplies them?
 
This is a link to the panels I'm using.

I bought mine from a friend who'd bought a much larger Roominator kit and had some spare panels left over. Helped him out and gave me a chance to experiment with the stuff.

You can buy it from various UK dealers, a quick Google search should track them down.
 
Originally posted by juboy
This is a link to the panels I'm using.

I bought mine from a friend who'd bought a much larger Roominator kit and had some spare panels left over. Helped him out and gave me a chance to experiment with the stuff.

You can buy it from various UK dealers, a quick Google search should track them down.
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juboy, you should declare the fact that you are not a disinterested party in promoting Auralex products.

I don't know how many dealers in the UK stock it but in a Google search on the terms "Auralex isolation UK" the third link on the page (and the first proper UK link) just so happens to be a link to Cinema Experience which is run by a close associate of yours we all know about.

I'm not happy with having people with a vested interest promoting products as if they were bona fide happy customers. I don't know whether you really use any Auralex products yourself but if you want to promote them you should declare you interest.

Michael.
 
Originally posted by michaelab
I'm not happy with having people with a vested interest promoting products as if they were bona fide happy customers.
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Even when it's true?

OK, no matter. Dunkyboy, spend whatever you want buying new CD players. Who cares?
 
Michael,

Don't want to mix things on this excellent Forum, but as it happens, Dunkyboy also hangs out at AVTalk - as I do, as well as AVForums. There was quite a good discussion on room accoustics on AVTalk, including panels. When I bought the Auralex product that goes under amps - I bought one for my sub., to good effect - Dunc took opportunity to have a demo.

Upshot is that I think JB's comment was a good one.

That said, I agree with your comment:
"I'm not happy with having people with a vested interest promoting products as if they were bona fide happy customers. "

I can't speak for JB's commercial interests in promoting Auralex, but surely involvement in helping to run AVTalk is a good thing. I've certainly benefited from his good advice over the years - not least on Tosh tellies over on AVForums. Just like I did from you on DACs.

Funny old world ...

... and we all must agree that the best upgrade is that next CD!!
 
Dunc
I feel sorry for your actual situation. I don't think that you are the only person who had this experience. I cannot help you much but I would like nevertheless write some considerations.
:duck:
One of the main problems I see in the history of an Hifi system is the lack of planning. Mostly one think that one component is the weakest an one buys the one you consider the best for your actual system. The next day you wake up and the same thing happens again. At the end you have a compromise of a compromise of a compromise of a.......

More and more I believe, unless you buy a whole system at once (which most of us don't do), you must treat the 'build' of the own system as a project. That means you first have to be in clear what you want to have at the end (your goals) and how to reach them. Also a good planning should be made (finances plays a big role) and then keep focus on your goals without letting you get always distracted by friend, magazines, dealers and so on.
Of course you shouldn't be totally short minded which means you should be able to be slightly flexible. This sounds complex and very difficult to do but the main problem remains the lack of mid-term goals or first of all really know what you want.

I don't think that looking specifically for an adaguate CDP will solve your problems. It might actually be the beginning of them.
Have you already seen /heard a dream system in your opinion with the ATC20? If yes which components did it have (including cables)?
Are your loudspeakers new, how long have you heard them? Consider the fact that you maybe need 100 hours before you can start 'playing around' with them.
I hope you will find a way out of this.

cheers
 
Originally posted by juboy
Even when it's true?

OK, no matter. Dunkyboy, spend whatever you want buying new CD players. Who cares?
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Even if it's true you should declare your interest. There are plenty of people with "trade" interests on the forum which are declared and AFAIK no-one has a problem with it.

I'm aware thet Duncan and ditton are aware of the situation and hang out on AV Talk aswell but my post was also for the benefit of those who don't know the connections.

One of the causes for the whole AV Talk / AV Forums debacle (and a major reason why AV Talk was created whether it's admitted or not) is because of just such somewhat underhand viral marketing techniques by people who had a lot to gain. Lot's of "customers" popping up whenever convenient to say how happy they were with the product they "just bought" ....and then sometimes never posting again :rolleyes:

I know for a fact there a people on this forum connected with AV Talk who have posted comments about kit which they "own" when they have no such kit remotely like it. I'm not saying that's what your doing Julian but it all makes harder to believe who's telling the truth and who has what to gain :(

Michael.
 
Originally posted by dunkyboy

Anyway, to cut to the chase, I've recently been reading reviews (both by magazines and on online forums) that may indicate that my CD player is the root of the issue.
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No, the root of the problem is that you are reading magazines :)

So. I need some advice. What should I be considering? What should I be listening to? Consider my budget to be about £800 - £900 tops, and £600 is probably more reasonable. And yes my preference is definitely for secondhand - I doubt very much that there's anything for £600 new that could even come close to my 507!

So what am I looking for, sound-wise? Good question. As I said, I haven't seriously tried anything but Meridians in my system in about two and a half years, so I'm hoping to try a wide variety of different "presentations".
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Get one of these, it will give you any sound you want (and more importantly, fiddling with one will give you some idea of how much you have to bend the frequency response to hear a change, and then, the other shoe will drop, and you'll realize that there cannot be appreciable differences between CD players that have a flat freqency response..) $300 inc shipping in the US, I've no idea how much it is in the UK...
 
there cannot be appreciable differences between CD players that have a flat freqency response

There's a person I can relate to.

Duncan, repeat after me: It's only a CD player, it's only a CD player, it's only a CD player, it's only a CD player, it's only a CD player....

Ahhhhh! Feeling better already.
 
James,

You are now coming across as dim-witted/narrow-minded WRT CD players.

Which? magazine a few years back basically said buy the cheapest cos they all sound the same, yet you yourself upgraded from a CD3.5/Hi to a full-monty CDS2/XPS at some considerable cost no doubt.

So quit the trolling.

As an aside, your rather unfortunate experiences with the CDX that forced you to go so high and so quickly were possibly due to the supports you were using under the CD player at the time.

If I'm correct, when you were experimenting with different CD players with a view to forking out not insignificant sums of cash, you were still in your pre-Mana/unborn phase of hi-fi life when your mind may have been a little more open to what the different boxes can actuall do...

Now, the CDX is a fussy bugger of a CD player and will only function as intended when sited upon something that doesn't resonate an awful lot. When I first tried the CDX I sent it back declaring my CD5/Flatcap2 to be somewhat better for less money. It was true. The CDX hates glass.

Then I changed my stands for something that the hard metal feet of a CDX can get along with better. The CD5/FC2 also sounded a lot better on the new low-resonance amplitude support, but the CDX left it for dead.

On order I have an acrylic shelf that is supposed to lower that resonance ampltude thingy even more to give even more tune, emotion and music.

I won't ask you to try it though because I know how annoying it is when you say the same to me. :D

CD players have had this "flat response" from 20hz to 20KHz since they were first available in 1983 and thus were deemed to provide the "perfect sound forever."

Clearly they did not, as not only did vinyl often still sound better, but they could also sound different to each other despite the fact that they had a flat response and read only 1s and 0s. I can only conclude therefore that there is more to musical enjoyment than "flat frequency responses" and some other dubious measurables.

I care little for why CD players sound different, other than that they do.

As always, "the proof of the pudding/trust your ears..."

If this defies a certain reductionistic logic then so be it.
 
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