Accuracy Part 3.

[LiloLee]

Remember the important rider - "if they have the same electrical [i.e. LRC] parameters", which ISTM is the problem with the Isolda/DNM comparison.

But the whole point is that I prefer Isolda to DNM, not another cable that measures the same. I'm sure other cables I tried didn't measure the same, it's just that the Isolda stood out from the crowd. So if it stood out because it measured differently then great, tell me what it is about the measurement that made it sound better to my ears.

So maybe if we do a DBT we should have Isolda, DNM and an unknown as a control, may be Goertz or just plane bellwire.

 

[michaelab]

Graham, OK yes, if you were to just put down AAAAAA or BBBBBBB then I guess you could say someone was playing silly buggers but it's still a valid sequence. Afterall, if you really can't tell the difference what's the point in trying to guess? If you really think there's no change in the sound for each trial then it's perfectly valid to choose all As or all Bs.

On the whole though I don't think that if we did a ZG DBT everyone would enter into the spirit of it properly and not try to play games. If you were really worried about it you could catch out cheaters by doing a second run where you say you're changing cables but are actually making a change that should be audible by everyone (eg -3dB @ 10kHz rolloff).

Michael.

 

[michaelab]

Lee, the reason that the "with the same LRC parameters" rider is always added is that many people claim there's some magic beyond those parameters which is making a difference. The sceptics say there isn't. Isolda is considerably more expensive than DNM Reson, however, it's quite possible to make a cable with the same LRC parameters as Isolda for a fraction of the price, just as it would be possible to make a Nordost Valhalla "clone" for a few quid per meter (or less).

I don't think anyone's saying that cables with different LRC parameters don't sound different (allthough those differences are likely to be very system dependant and probably quite subtle with typical speaker cable lengths).

 

[notaclue]

But the whole point is that I prefer Isolda to DNM, not another cable that measures the same. I'm sure other cables I tried didn't measure the same, it's just that the Isolda stood out from the crowd. So if it stood out because it measured differently then great, tell me what it is about the measurement that made it sound better to my ears.

So maybe if we do a DBT we should have Isolda, DNM and an unknown as a control, may be Goertz or just plane bellwire.

Widely spaced cables (e.g. DNM) might possibly cause slight treble roll-off in some circumstances. So then the test isn't so much can you hear the difference bewteen 2 cables but can you detect a whatever-db treble roll-off. That's why the rules state 0.1db matching and why you need to measure cables before attempting the test. Do this and you might find that the DNM is fine.

Like GrahamN, I remain an 'agnostic' on this. I will believe that measurement isn't everything to cable 'sound' if someone can reliably and repeatedly prove they can hear a difference under DBT conditions. But I can't help wondering why nobody (as far as I know) ever has...

Note that in the US, the newsgroup reward for a cable DBT is $5,000. And no doubt whoever passed a DBT would become an instant Internet audiophile celebrity.

Here is a link to a post by Stewart Pinkerton with details of his challenge: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.audio.high-end/msg/7eb6e1e4cd685a55

A search on Google groups will give more info.

 

[LiloLee]

I don't think anyone's saying that cables with different LRC parameters don't sound different (allthough those differences are likely to be very system dependant and probably quite subtle with typical speaker cable lengths).

So cables do sound different I'm glad about that then.

I know what you mean and in most cases I agree they are subtle, that's why it took 3 years for me to change from DNM to Isolda., it had to be a worthwhile change.