All aboard the atheist bus?

[Seeker_UK]

If you think that the demise of religion will mean nation states stop going to war with each other then, I'm afraid, you may live long enough to be dreadfully disappointed - assuming the decline of religion continues at its present rate.

Is there a decline in religion?

There is in anglican faith in western europe but globally?

Is Islam on the wane?

What about in India? Can't see a huge drop in the number of Sikhs, Hindus and Moslems there?

What about Roman Catholicism in Latin America / Eastern Europe?

 

[anon_bb]

Thanks for taking the time to google me bub I am very flattered. I am sure you pinned it up on your wall. After all you must be some kind of obsessive masochist to keep coming on these forums year after year and get your ass kicked.

I dont dislike you buboe I just think you are full of BS - doubtless you are a terribly nice chap in real life, even if a bit insecure, status conscious and needy. This is just a hifi forum so try to keep your perspective and dont take it so personally.

You like to think that as an atheist you are a smarter than a non-atheist. It simply isnt so. You have your own nonsensical beliefs that are just as bad - the flying ninja spaghetti monster perhaps?

Oh btw even now theoretical physicists tend to be more religious than the norm according to all studies, as detailed in physics world in the last year or so. So much for your claim about leading thinkers. Do you consider yourself to be a leading thinker by any chance? Just curious

 

[lAmBoY]

You see - the broad brush approach. A lot of wars were/are fought in the name of religion therefore without religion there would be no wars. This is largely Missed-A-Good-Pokin's approach as well. The first bit is, of course, true, the conclusion drawn being utterly false.

Wars are/were fought for political and/or personal gain. What the instigator needs is a banner beneath which the minions will be prepared to die. Minions being what they are, religion has been a good starting point. Fear works. As does revenge. As does greed. As does patriotism. Depends, for the instigator, on what's hot and what's not.

If you think that the demise of religion will mean nation states stop going to war with each other then, I'm afraid, you may live long enough to be dreadfully disappointed - assuming the decline of religion continues at its present rate.

It really isn't necessary, or indeed in any way possible, to 'prove' how evil religion is. People do evil things, religion is just sometimes the vehicle they use, to achieve the power and/or influence needed, to get away with it! For a while.

I think you underplay the 'minions' role in religion. Yes we will still have wars without religion but at least they will be about resources/land/political power - instead of vishnu against alah against Yahweh(sp?) etc etc (pls delete and replace supernatural entity as you see fit)

 

[lAmBoY]

No, Stalin didn't. I'm not suggesting he did. I just want to nail this idea of "religious people= bad / atheists = good".

You see, in the absence of God, he like other atheists went to war and killed for other reasons like race, resources, politics, ideology.

Lets keep a balance here - people have died in religious and non-religious wars. In fact the amount killed in the latter will increase as less people believe.



Not every religion is perfect but what's wrong with teaching people it's bad to kill, or steal, or commit adultery?

IMHO, the problem is not setting morals but how those religions deal with transgression.

OK. Religion = bad, reality = good. all IMHO.

We will always fight wars, if we had no religious quarrels we would have a lot less.

Trust me you don't need the bible to teach you its bad to kill, shag the neighbors cat, steal 20p from a child etc, mmmkay?

Question - do you recognise Scientology as a religion?

 

[Seeker_UK]

OK. Religion = bad, reality = good. all IMHO.

See - that didn't hurt a bit did it?

We will always fight wars, if we had no religious quarrels we would have a lot less.

Perhaps. At this moment, I'd say on balance that number of dead due to wars started for religious reasons > number of dead due to war started for other reasons. But watch this space.

Trust me you don't need the bible to teach you its bad to kill, shag the neighbors cat, steal 20p from a child etc, mmmkay?

You do me dis-service. I didn't say religions were the only route to morality - perhaps I should have been more explicit. You said:

"I sincerely hope people don't get their morals from religion."

Which inferred that you thought that a religious based morality is a bad thing. I don't agree, they are merely a different route to a set of moral standards which a well balanced person as yourself has already but some people do not. That in itself is no bad thing.

Question - do you recognise Scientology as a religion?

No.

 

[Graffoeman]

I think you underplay the 'minions' role in religion. Yes we will still have wars without religion but at least they will be about resources/land/political power - instead of vishnu against alah against Yahweh(sp?) etc etc (pls delete and replace supernatural entity as you see fit)

Minions as in those who are about to die etc etc. Minions as in those who are not leaders. It matters not what they do/don't believe in as long it's enough for them not to mind getting bumped off.

Wars have always been about resources/land/political power. That was my point. what they (those who will do the dropping down dead bit) are told they are fighting for is whatever the instigator thinks will get them going. At the moment the hot potato is 'imperialist western ..........' on the one side and '........ terrorist' on the other. (Insert your own choice of adjective.) Neither is an accurate description of the other, but both are doing the job rather nicely, thank you very much. Next year it might have to be something else. It's not religion, it's whatever works.

 

[Seeker_UK]

Yes we will still have wars without religion but at least they will be about resources/land/political power - instead of vishnu against alah against Yahweh(sp?) etc etc (pls delete and replace supernatural entity as you see fit)

I'm sure that the millions who are going to die will be pleased they're dying for resources or putting someone in power and not for any other reason.

 

[anon_bb]

If religion suddenly vanished tomorrow I suspect very little would change.

 

[The Devil]

Thanks for taking the time to google me bub I am very flattered. I am sure you pinned it up on your wall. After all you must be some kind of obsessive masochist to keep coming on these forums year after year and get your ass kicked.

I dont dislike you buboe I just think you are full of BS - doubtless you are a terribly nice chap in real life, even if a bit insecure, status conscious and needy. This is just a hifi forum so try to keep your perspective and dont take it so personally.

A chum emailed me this link:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=11585099

Is it really you?! And you call me "a bit insecure, status conscious and needy"? Which 6th-former wrote your dreadful poem?

"Nick has 621 friends."

Of course he does

 

[The Devil]

Not every religion is perfect but what's wrong with teaching people it's bad to kill, or steal, or commit adultery?

Nothing at all, and it can be accomplished without religion. Many children would go unmolested, and we wouldn't have religion-driven crime.

I'm not saying we'd have no crime or wars, but fewer.

 

[spica]

Nothing at all, and it can be accomplished without religion. Many children would go unmolested, and we wouldn't have religion-driven crime.

I'm not saying we'd have no crime or wars, but fewer.

what percentage of the many/fewer ?

 

[The Devil]

what percentage of the many/fewer ?

We'll never know for certain.

However, there'll be an 100% fall in genital mutilation among female children of formerly-muslim parents, for example. 100% fewer suicide attacks by formerly-muslim loons who think they are going to paradise with virgins thrown in. 100% fewer gynaecologists murdered by formerly-christian loons who feel they are doing god's work. 100% fewer Westboro baptists. 100% fewer fatwas against innocent authors. 100% less religious interference in scientific research......

 

[Seeker_UK]

We'll never know for certain.

However, there'll be an 100% fall in genital mutilation among female children of formerly-muslim parents, for example. 100% fewer suicide attacks by formerly-muslim loons who think they are going to paradise with virgins thrown in. 100% fewer gynaecologists murdered by formerly-christian loons who feel they are doing god's work. 100% fewer Westboro baptists. 100% fewer fatwas against innocent authors. 100% less religious interference in scientific research......

And what would you be able to rail against then?

 

[The Devil]

People who imagine aftermarket mains cables "make a difference".
People who pick their noses.
People who drive Vauxhalls.

 

[spica]

We'll never know for certain.

However, there'll be an 100% fall in genital mutilation among female children of formerly-muslim parents, for example. 100% fewer suicide attacks by formerly-muslim loons who think they are going to paradise with virgins thrown in. 100% fewer gynaecologists murdered by formerly-christian loons who feel they are doing god's work. 100% fewer Westboro baptists. 100% fewer fatwas against innocent authors. 100% less religious interference in scientific research......

seems like your majority gripe is with Fanaticism..take that out of the equation and you'd be ok ?

 

[The Devil]

seems like your majority gripe is with Fanaticism..take that out of the equation and you'd be ok ?

No, I think all monotheistic religion should be done away with. You can't take extremism out of it.

Buddhism is rather fun & harmless, and the Sikhs I know seem quite cool, so I'd let them be. Probably.

 

[lAmBoY]

The Sikhs get to wear cool knives.

 

[penance]

So do Ghurkas.

 

[lAmBoY]

Question - do you recognise Scientology as a religion?
No.

Why not?

Why doesnt Ron Hubbard get the special attention that Jesus gets?
Why is it not 'OK' to view religion in a negative way?
Why should religion be afforded special dispensation in our school system?
Why should....ok I'll stop there before I get into faith based schools.

(BTW This isnt sniping against anyone on this forum, just open q&a debate)

 

[anon_bb]

No you didnt you googled it yourself - you have posted such links many times when you have lost an argument. Its sad form and indicates a poor and childish loser. You dont have any chums bub that is why you have to make a nuisance of yourself here. Havent you got some work you should be doing?

Its a song by chumbawamba for the record - a comment on social networking sites that I endorse. I only use myspace for music and hot asian browsing - guilty as charged

Why dont you post your own pic as well or are you only cowardly enought to post mine numb nuts? I always imagine you to be a fat slack jawed man in his late 40s or early 50s for some reason

I am not the one posting threads to get a rise out of christians in order to boost my own ego.

Genital mutilation has been going on for 1000s of years and will continue with or without religion. It is a means of social control of women that is merely covered with a religious excuse. You are hopelessly niave buboe. Getting of of religion will achieve nothing.

A chum emailed me this link:

Is it really you?! And you call me "a bit insecure, status conscious and needy"? Which 6th-former wrote your dreadful poem?

"Nick has 621 friends."

Of course he does