ATC active 10's

Sorry, I was sort of trying to be amusing. Maybe I failed, but apologies for winding you up.

If you had a dealer demo, Sam, and didn't get them home for an extended period, I'm not surprised you didn't like them. I demmed them at Cornflake and they were terrible. Fortunately, I'd already had a borrowed pair at home for a couple of weeks so already had a much better idea of what they could really do.

Anyway, olive branch?

-- Ian

 

I demmed both ATC active 50s and active 100s on the ATC stands at a dealer and they were both pretty lousy. Set-up is absolutely critical to getting the larger ATCs working properly, but, boy, is it worth it!

I hesitate to say that I wouldn't use anything else, but I'm close....

I've not heard the active 10s, but I'd be very surprised if they were anything but stunningly good.

 

Well Ian hating is very exagerated in my case. If I really hated the sound of those speakers I would have asked you to turn them off!
What I wrote was what I thought, not more not less, believe me I'm not trying to be polite nor diplomatic.

 

OK, Titian didn't like them much and GrahamN hated them.

-- Ian

 

Ian, no offence has been taken by me, honestly. I thought these places were for putting our opinions across and winding up the next bloke as much as possible in the process...

Olive branch not needed mate.

Sam

 

Datty, my mum told me to stay away from people like you atc's and a Levvy Niceeeee, the smooth laid back sort of flowing sound might just well gel with the atc'a ruthless efficency
BTW I live just 15 miles from aston down airfield (ATC's place), which is in between AE cirencester and AVI down the hill chalford valley.
I can tell a levvy 390 from wadia 860 and a krell 280 quite easily and in a controlled test (have done so on a more than one occation too)
Tis easy, ones for jazz cats with extra comfy pipe and slippers, the other doubles as jack hammer, while the wadia just makes music, you should be flattered my state side audio terrorist, that I choose a something from your neck of the woods, it has all the right bits, just needs shaking a little, un like genlecs that need crushing Fireman sam genlecs are rougher than a blunt bastard file covered in tar, idealy paired with a krell 280 cd & early fpb 300's superb along side EMF weapons as a soinc disrupter beam

 

The uneducated amongst us often confuse rough sounding with neutral.

Like I say, you'll learn...

Sam

 

Sammy, neutral as rough, thats a new one :ffrc: I'm sure the harpy that lives at the bottom of Tones (the older) garden uses genlecs to remove her corns and calluses to great effect, "Have bunions, use genlecs" I believe the old catch phrase went

 

I like that one...

Sam

 

I had Active 10s for 2 and a half years and loved them. I bought them after demoing every decent standmount speaker I could find in Edinburgh and Glasgow over about two months. The only ones that came close were the Dynaudio Contour 1.3 Mk. IIs, but these were passive and more expensive at £1200 (the Active 10s were £995 back then!!) Unlike just about every other speaker I auditioned, the ATCs just had no "character" of their own. To my ears, it just sounded like they were playing exactly what was on the disc rather than some artificial creation loosely based on the original material, as just about every other speaker sounds after living with ATCs for a while.

They're not perfect, though Fireman Sam's criticisms are definitely not ones I would associate with the Active 10s - I'm putting my money on either a duff demo pair or just a duff demo. Their realism and dynamics (both micro and macro) are what attracted me to them in the first place.

I would say their biggest problem is that they're small, and they can tend to sound it. With that wee 5" bass driver, even driven actively by a 200-watt amp, there's only so much SPL they're going to be able to put out, and only so much bass they're going to manage realistically. Unlike most small speaker designs, though, they're NOT designed to artificially enhance the midbass in an effort to sound big and impressive - just the contrary. As sealed box designs, they have a nice, smooth, gently rolled off response starting at around 70Hz (-2dB) and going down as was mentioned to 45Hz at -6dB.

However, even if you're a bass head you shouldn't discount them until you'v eheard them in your room! With a little wall reinforcement you'd be surprised at just how much and how deep the bass is that they can produce. The shallow roll-off means they really do delve deep if the room will give them a little boost. And, being ATC, this bass is always incredibly tight, tuneful, clean, and dynamic. Personally, I agree with Bob that they sounded better off well clear of the walls in my room (partly because the midrange became very muffled and nasty if I pushed them up close to the walls), but I suspect this is very much dependent on the room in which they are used and the listener's tastes.

And yes, for their size they go very loud with little trouble. They're intended as nearfield minimonitors, so don't expect them to fill a large room with bone-crunching sound. In a smaller room, however, they provide as much volume as you could possibly desire. And if coupled with a subwoofer they can handle considerably larger rooms with little difficulty. I did manage to push their bass drivers to their limits on a few occasions, though - though my room is a fairly good size (18' x 13' or thereabouts) and I can be a bit of a nutcase when it comes to loudness.....

I have heard complaints from some people that they can sound "thin" and another person phrased it as "glassy". In my experience, they could seem to err on the side of upper midrange forwardness, but it wasn't a huge problem, though this will be a matter of taste. In any case, they do seem to divide opinions quite sharply - a lot of people i know love them dearly, and a number of people didn't like them at all (even if they then went on to buy passive ATC speakers - so it's not a company-wide issue, whatever it is).

IME, if you use them as they are intended - as nearfield speakers in a small to medium-sized room, and give them a little wall reinforcement (though not too much!) they can sound absolutely stunning, with top notch imaging, dynamics, midrange-treble integration (that all ATC actives do so well), and bass. You do need to spend a bit of time finding the best position for them, and they do like a good solid stand (the matching ATC ones are just rebadged Atacama Nexus 6s I believe, which aren't really worthy of a fine speaker such as these). They also will sound awful with a poor sorce, and thrive off a good preamp (I have the ATC CA-2, which is a stunning little pre at £750).

To conclude, I'd like to mention that after 2.5 years of owning the 10s, I've now upgraded to the Active 20s. The 20s are superior in just about every way, so don't make the mistake of thinking that the 10s are just as good as the bigger ATCs only in a smaller box (which is what I assumed until I heard the 20s...) The new tweeter in the range of ATCs from the 20s on up is a stunner, with fantastic resolution and a wonderful sweet sound (by comparison, the treble on the Active 10s was slightly grainy, and a bit "matter of fact", though not to distraction), and the larger midbass driver and greater cabinet volume go a long way to dispensing with the "small speaker" sound - the 20s certainly aren't "thin-sounding" by anyone's reckoning!

But then of course, the 20s are £2700 to the 10s' £1600, so by all rights they should be a lot better! I bought my 10s for £995 and at that price they were the bargain of the century, head and shoulders above all the passive standmounts I heard in that price bracket, and with a superb power amp and active crossover to boot! At £1600 they're obviously not as much of a bargain, but I would say the current price is what ATC probably should have priced them at in the first place.

In any case, you definitely need to audition them. As I said, they're not to everyone's taste. I fell in love with them the instant I heard them. Others needed a little time to get to know them before they really realised how great they are. Don't listen to what anybody says - give them a few days, or preferably a few weeks, in your home and make up your own mind. You may just end up keeping them.

Dunc

 

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. The 50's have much better bass extension (they play lower), but the 10's have a mild bass "bump" (ie not a flat frequency response) - now I have to admit I did move them into another position and didn't put too much effort into setting them up, but they are in a "know good" spot, and it was only by switching from them to the 50's that I thought the bass just a tad bumpy.

While I'm on the subject of set-up, all decent speakers need careful setup - ATC's are no worse than anything else!! Oh, and while I'm about it, the ATC stands for the 50's are great for positioning during set-up, they slide easily over carpet - I wouldn't like to put them on all that Mana (see other thread) only to find out they were in the wrong position

I haven't "heard" the ATC stands for the 10's, but the importer told me that they were 24" high, which is way too much. I have them on a very nice pair of Sound Anchor's which are height adjustable (and damn heavy), and IIRC the speakers are about 18" off the ground.

The Levinson and the ATC's make for a nice "midi" system I don't even bother with a pre-amp, the 390S is directly hooked up to the 50's. The alternative "black box fetish" (ie naim) needs a preamp (add $$$$), needs a fancy stand (add $$$$), needs silly din connectors (add $$$), is a pain in the arse to use (ie puck) and looks pretty ugly to boot - I can't be bothered with it.

The funny thing about owning ATC's is that I too used to live not too far from Stroud (until I moved here in 2000) and it was only after getting here that I started buying speakers from 5K miles away.

I have to admit I did stumble across Wadia (860 or 861) when looking for the Levinson. What put me off was the digital domain volume control - that and the fact that the dealer was a jackass (but that's another story).

The other funny thing about the 390S is that I bought it because I was so impressed with the Benchmarkmedia DAC1 which is a great little thing and has the same DAC chip as the 390S (it's in front in the photo below). It's flaw is that it ain't a complete CD player and has not remote. I bought the 390S because it has a transport, and a remote control, figuring if it sounded anything like as good as the benchmark I'd be onto a winner If I'd known Stereophile was going to rate the 390S "class A" I would have had second thoughts of course..

Wm You should try to get your mits on a benchmark (if you've not done so already) I think it has many tweak possibilities - I will post a photo of the innards when I get home from work

 

Benchmarkmedia DAC1 innards

Here's a photo of the innards. That's just about all there is! I've cropped the left side of the photo which was the IEC inlet, some empty space and the other half of teh torroidal. The DAC is AD1853. There's a "secret sauce" jitter buster (which I guess is the chip with the black plastic blob on the top to disguise it's true identity??)

More info and wild claims at..
http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/digital/dac1/default.asp

It does sound bloody good though

 

Datty, have got the tea shit sir, and it's not half bad I'll agree, better now it has a decent PSU other mods in the offing, but for the cash sublime, looks like we may have something in common after all Wm

 

Excellent write up Duncan,

It seems we all agree on the stands, the question is what is a firm of ATC's pedigree who refuse to compromise on anything else, doing supplying the bloody things?

To ensure that they sound awful in shop dems? If that is the purpose then they are doing a great job, but it strikes me as slightly odd marketing.

 

It's all a front to keep Audio Rescue busy so that I can commit more dastardly deeds of blind test terror

 

I thought they were fine for Ian's collection of "Men tuning their instruments" (copyright PFM). But for anything classical/orchestral - yes, he's right, I hated them. Probably Dunkyboys description of the anti position ("upper midrange forwardness", "glassy") gets it about right.

I was though quite amazed at the difference the Kan stands made wrt the ATC - definite improvement (removed the "utter" from "utter shite" ).

 

Say what you really feel!! hahaha

I must say Im intreagued now. Id love to hear them.

I have a funny feeling I would really like them.

 

LOL

 

Funnier things do happen, and it would be interesting to hear your views, but I would say that the ATCs and your LVs are at the extreme opposite ends of the 'character' spectrum.

 

Ooh er, a WM statement I can agree with. Does not compute, does not compute...
We dispensed with the Genelecs to general hoorahs and flag waving, but my ears are still ringing. Genelecs are loved by the same people who thought Yammy NS10s were the height of refinement ("all they need is a hanky").
I wouldn't recommend DBT testing for gennies, so much as double ear-muff testing.
And people wonder why so much music sounds so F**king terrible