bottleneck
talks a load of rubbish
Nice one Julian! 
Go for it, what have you got to loose?
Hope you enjoy the build too.
Chris
Go for it, what have you got to loose?
Hope you enjoy the build too.
Chris
Bye Bye B&W...
- Thread starter julian2002
- Start date
Hi Julian
I built a pair of these a couple or three years ago, well I say I my brother actually he was a chippie in another life, and he biscuit jointed them to ease construction, all I would say about construction would be the top is but jointed (you end up with to joints showing ) unsightly I would say ,they could be veneered over of course, they are heavily voiced in the bass unit which took me some time to get used to being an old timer, since I stupidly throw away my PRO9TLS I looked tried many many different types never satisfied until I had these, almost like an old friend returning , only line one side of the line if you know what I mean, and I used some RS high tensile bolts instead of the rubber ones supplied, I also placed the x=over panel on the bottom of the bass chamber so I could easily change thing to start as it where and get the sound right, they are still there, they are a ââ'¬Å"fullââ'¬Â range speaker make no mistake, i have used them with a 82/250 they are an easy load a quite efficient, iam very pleased with them.
Stuart
I built a pair of these a couple or three years ago, well I say I my brother actually he was a chippie in another life, and he biscuit jointed them to ease construction, all I would say about construction would be the top is but jointed (you end up with to joints showing ) unsightly I would say ,they could be veneered over of course, they are heavily voiced in the bass unit which took me some time to get used to being an old timer, since I stupidly throw away my PRO9TLS I looked tried many many different types never satisfied until I had these, almost like an old friend returning , only line one side of the line if you know what I mean, and I used some RS high tensile bolts instead of the rubber ones supplied, I also placed the x=over panel on the bottom of the bass chamber so I could easily change thing to start as it where and get the sound right, they are still there, they are a ââ'¬Å"fullââ'¬Â range speaker make no mistake, i have used them with a 82/250 they are an easy load a quite efficient, iam very pleased with them.
Stuart
bottleneck
talks a load of rubbish
the anti-lawrence mafia?
Merlin,
Remind me again, what speakers are you using at the moment?
Remind me again, what speakers are you using at the moment?
sideshowbob
Trisha
I heard the S3s driven by WAD gear too, very impressive.
I'm increasingly of the "buy a huge pair of speakers that teeter on the brink of overpowering the room" school too.
-- Ian
I'm increasingly of the "buy a huge pair of speakers that teeter on the brink of overpowering the room" school too.
-- Ian
julian2002
Muper Soderator
i haven't bought anything yet as i've been mashalling my resources and trying to find some boxes for the offboard x-overs (i think i'll be using the same place that michael did for his pwm amp). now i have the money i'll be putting it in the bank today and sending the cheque off to ivan.
i will be ordering the total kits as cutting a straight line isn't on my list of skills in woodwork which run about as far as screwing and gluing things together (whihc will hopefully be enough).
melin,
which vandersteens will you be trying? i've heard the little ones with some exposure electronics and they sounded not half bad - although a little challenged in the scale department for you i would have thought - not sure about hte bigger ones though.
cheers
julian.
i will be ordering the total kits as cutting a straight line isn't on my list of skills in woodwork which run about as far as screwing and gluing things together (whihc will hopefully be enough).
melin,
which vandersteens will you be trying? i've heard the little ones with some exposure electronics and they sounded not half bad - although a little challenged in the scale department for you i would have thought - not sure about hte bigger ones though.
cheers
julian.
Julian,
I've been folowing your bass saga with interest. I decided to go the additional sub way. Now I'm finding that my CDM1Ses manage to excite the primary bass node @ 32Hz in my room, and this from a speaker that's supposed to be -6dB at 46Hz. I want to go the other way with my main speakers now, something like ProAc Tablettes or AVI Neutron. Got to get the WAF tho' :-( . Good luck with your project. Incidentally, my system started similiarly to your's around a Nait5, which I still have. I wanted to go up the Naim ladder, but I've decided that it's too expensive and there has to be better kit for less money (and space!).
I've been folowing your bass saga with interest. I decided to go the additional sub way. Now I'm finding that my CDM1Ses manage to excite the primary bass node @ 32Hz in my room, and this from a speaker that's supposed to be -6dB at 46Hz. I want to go the other way with my main speakers now, something like ProAc Tablettes or AVI Neutron. Got to get the WAF tho' :-( . Good luck with your project. Incidentally, my system started similiarly to your's around a Nait5, which I still have. I wanted to go up the Naim ladder, but I've decided that it's too expensive and there has to be better kit for less money (and space!).
joel
Shaman of Signals
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julian2002
Muper Soderator
user34,
just out of interest how large is your room and how far out into the room can you have your speakers? i found that the 7's needed to be quite a way into the room or their ports bunged. this was ok as waf is not a problem for me.
scaling the naim ladder has been expensive yes but with judicious 2nd hand buying and selling my old kit at decent prices it probably cost a lot less than you'd think. yes there is better kit out there but i just seem to like what naim kit does.
cheers
julian
just out of interest how large is your room and how far out into the room can you have your speakers? i found that the 7's needed to be quite a way into the room or their ports bunged. this was ok as waf is not a problem for me.
scaling the naim ladder has been expensive yes but with judicious 2nd hand buying and selling my old kit at decent prices it probably cost a lot less than you'd think. yes there is better kit out there but i just seem to like what naim kit does.
cheers
julian
julian2002
Muper Soderator
funking hell joel. those things are mental. maybe once i've cut my teeth on the s5tl's. and am living in the wilds of devon.
any idea on the price?
cheers
julian
any idea on the price?
cheers
julian
Julian,
The room is 5.23m x 4.75m x 2.42m. I can get the speakers out about 50cm from the front wall, not much more. I've been experimenting with the bungs in, with the sub. The response from the CDM1Se is 'tamer' that way, in fact I loved that 32Hz bump without the sub, but with it I can't fully exploit the extra heft from the sub yet. I like what Naim does, but I don't want to get more boxes, I already have a HiCap on the Nait. I have CDX/Nait5/HiCap, the obvious upgrade path is add an XPS and then go for a 202 or 82 and then 140/150 or 200. But that's two extra boxes, at least there wouldn't be extra power cables necessary. No, I'm thinking along the lines of an AVI integrated, or a Beat 130/150 if it's available.
The room is 5.23m x 4.75m x 2.42m. I can get the speakers out about 50cm from the front wall, not much more. I've been experimenting with the bungs in, with the sub. The response from the CDM1Se is 'tamer' that way, in fact I loved that 32Hz bump without the sub, but with it I can't fully exploit the extra heft from the sub yet. I like what Naim does, but I don't want to get more boxes, I already have a HiCap on the Nait. I have CDX/Nait5/HiCap, the obvious upgrade path is add an XPS and then go for a 202 or 82 and then 140/150 or 200. But that's two extra boxes, at least there wouldn't be extra power cables necessary. No, I'm thinking along the lines of an AVI integrated, or a Beat 130/150 if it's available.
Dev
Moderator
Same here, I thought someone bought the company :yikes:7_V said:Got a bit of a shock there. I thought you meant the company.
You can get MDF piano lacquered if you feel wealthy enough.
As for driver sizes, well a well designed TL will have a relatively flat bass extension to a good 1/2 an octave lower than the Fs of the bass driver used. A decent 8" will have an Fs of around 3-35hz so that would give extension down to low to mid 20s. I have to say also that in my experience of looking at speaker drive unit specs 10" (or even 12") very often don't have Fs significantly lower than a good 8" unit. The only advantage the bigger units will have over the 8" one will be just how loud they will go. Personally I don't see this as any paricular advantage in most British listening rooms. They just aren't big enough to require the extra 3-4db (at 20-25hz) of output you can get from bigger drive units IMO.
Then of course there is the issue of drive unit quality. I'd rather have a high quality 8" unit than a similarly priced 10 or 12" unit as in nearly every case the bigger units will have considerably worse performance parameters. You get what you pay for and good quality 10, 12 and 15" drive units are very expensive ! Cheap ones may give you extra extension but they're going to be an uncontrolled mess in the bass generaly speaking.
GTM
As for driver sizes, well a well designed TL will have a relatively flat bass extension to a good 1/2 an octave lower than the Fs of the bass driver used. A decent 8" will have an Fs of around 3-35hz so that would give extension down to low to mid 20s. I have to say also that in my experience of looking at speaker drive unit specs 10" (or even 12") very often don't have Fs significantly lower than a good 8" unit. The only advantage the bigger units will have over the 8" one will be just how loud they will go. Personally I don't see this as any paricular advantage in most British listening rooms. They just aren't big enough to require the extra 3-4db (at 20-25hz) of output you can get from bigger drive units IMO.
Then of course there is the issue of drive unit quality. I'd rather have a high quality 8" unit than a similarly priced 10 or 12" unit as in nearly every case the bigger units will have considerably worse performance parameters. You get what you pay for and good quality 10, 12 and 15" drive units are very expensive ! Cheap ones may give you extra extension but they're going to be an uncontrolled mess in the bass generaly speaking.
GTM
julian2002
Muper Soderator
I don't think i'll stretch to piano lacqering. i'll either go for a nice automotive paint with a clear coat on top to protect it or just hamerite the bugger depending upon my frustration and 'cant be arsed' levels at the end of the build.
cheers
julian
cheers
julian
MartinC
Trainee tea boy
user34 said:
Two pretty different sounding options there (depending quite which Tablettes you're talking about). The Pro-acs will be much more bassy, although at least in smaller rooms I always find this more a question of 'boom' rather than tune; the AVI are MUCH more controlled in their bass output (but will have less bass extension too).
MartinC said:
Thinking of Tablette 8s or the Neutrons. To be honest I've not actually heard either of them, but I want a speaker that drops off like a stone after (before ?) 60Hz or so now that I have the sub. Well that is assuming I get the sub sorted right. I have good stands and if I get speakers that are physically 1/3 volume of the CDM1Se that should reduce visual encumbrement.
