Bye Bye B&W...

Well, the die is cast and the cheque written and posted. hopefully they will land sometime next week and the farce can begin.
n24, i'll take a look now, i'm sure my imagination will be prodded.
cheers


julian
 
GTM said:
You can get MDF piano lacquered if you feel wealthy enough.


As for driver sizes, well a well designed TL will have a relatively flat bass extension to a good 1/2 an octave lower than the Fs of the bass driver used. A decent 8" will have an Fs of around 3-35hz so that would give extension down to low to mid 20s. I have to say also that in my experience of looking at speaker drive unit specs 10" (or even 12") very often don't have Fs significantly lower than a good 8" unit. The only advantage the bigger units will have over the 8" one will be just how loud they will go. Personally I don't see this as any paricular advantage in most British listening rooms. They just aren't big enough to require the extra 3-4db (at 20-25hz) of output you can get from bigger drive units IMO.

Then of course there is the issue of drive unit quality. I'd rather have a high quality 8" unit than a similarly priced 10 or 12" unit as in nearly every case the bigger units will have considerably worse performance parameters. You get what you pay for and good quality 10, 12 and 15" drive units are very expensive ! Cheap ones may give you extra extension but they're going to be an uncontrolled mess in the bass generaly speaking.


GTM
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I agree mainly. Low Fs drivers are like hens teeth and always have been. The manufacturing tolerance and long term reliability must make them a pain in the ass. As you say the REAL advantage of a transmission line is that medium Q, medium resonance drivers can be made to 'go lower' because of the weight of air to be pushed in the line. The reason I love DIY [and I suspect Merlin and Julian] is because if you choose to spend 10 x as much on bass drivers [about right to match the quality of mid and treble drivers nowadays] you can. No commercial maker will choose those figures. In regard to big drivers - I don't think you need to 'use' the extra loudness in a big driver, it just sounds far more relaxed used well within it's limits. As for low Fs - there are <17 Hz Fs, long throw 12" drivers available for less than £150 each
 
julian2002 said:
I don't think i'll stretch to piano lacqering. i'll either go for a nice automotive paint with a clear coat on top to protect it or just hamerite the bugger depending upon my frustration and 'cant be arsed' levels at the end of the build.
cheers


julian
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Julian,

If you go the cheap route, I have an electric paint spray gun you can borrow if you want.

Joel, those funktastic speakers are awesome. I like the ''smaller'' ! ones on the site too.. apparently still powerfull enough for small pubs and clubs :D
 
bottleneck said:
Joel, those funktastic speakers are awesome. I like the ''smaller'' ! ones on the site too.. apparently still powerfull enough for small pubs and clubs :D
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I would be quite interested to find out how these would work as "hifi" speakers in a decent listening environment. I have no idea about how much they might cost, but I suspect they would be pretty expensive.
 
chris,
i may just take you up on your offer of a spray gun. i need to find a colour for the things now. i'm thinking a very deep apple red (possibly metalic).
cheers


julian
 
joel said:
I would be quite interested to find out how these would work as "hifi" speakers in a decent listening environment. I have no idea about how much they might cost, but I suspect they would be pretty expensive.
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I did notice that the smaller ones were available for hire at £22 per day.So it's ll round to Chris' with our baddest 12" singles me thinks :D
 
Ju take a trip to halfords, and choose the colour that's most agreeable from then many hundreds of colours available, do it properly and the results will be very good. My speakers are painted, metalic grey, kinda fits in with most decor. The custom paint jobs you fancy are difficult to do DIY and prolly cost prohibitive to get done proffessionaly unless your pal is a spray painter. I'd stick with single colour, candy apple red sounds nice, but I reckpon whatever you use it has to be a darkish colour, otherwise it may look odd.
 
ak,
yeah i've seen quite a few painted speakers now and think they look much nicer than the ubiquitous 'blonde wood' finish. i'd like to be able to get a wood finish like the b&w sig series but veneering is a tricky job and one that can reveal inadiquacies in application ruthlessly so i'm not even going to attempt it. a darkish nicely metalic paint job is what i'm after i think. i've seen some electric guitars with a dark red - almost black blending into a slightly lighter red which i'd love to replicate but it looks like a lot of work and the possibility of messing it up would be much greater than a flat one colour job. i'll stick to a simple primer -> paint -> lacquer job with a few coats of each to start with and then see how it looks.
cheers


julian.
 
julian2002 said:
... i'll stick to a simple primer -> paint -> lacquer job with a few coats of each to start with and then see how it looks.
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The key is to sand flat with wet & dry production paper and this MUST be used on a block - you can buy cork or rubber blocks but don't try sanding without them. End by using 1200 grade paper. Be extremely careful about using wet & dry paper wet, as the water can seep into the wood and cause the paint to bubble up. Once you've bubbled it's very difficult to unbubble.

Sand between each coat of paint.

I have found that spray cans from Halfords work very well and are a lot less hassle than a spray gun.

When you have applied the final coat and allowed it to dry, rub on some T-Cut for the final finish. Then wax.

Apologies if you know all this stuff already. Hopefully it might be of general use to someone, anyway.
 
Yeah was gonna say Ju if ye paint right then you won't need lacquer which can be tricky to hget right, Steve beat me to it, follow his advice and don't rush, put on paint in very thin layers, and don't be surprised if you need 6-10 coats, don't rush it, also I would use a white primer will give paint colour much more body. The other alternative is that paint which changes colour depending on yer angle of view, I'm not sure if it's difficult to apply or obtain.
 
i've done very little painting in my life so far so this stuff is priceless. i did a bit of research into this and they either say do several coats very close together (15 mins max between coats) or leave a day or 2 between coats, because of the way the paint solvents dry and react with each other.
another couple of questions:
1) has anyone got any good ideas about makeshift spray booths? i was going to use my garage for spraying in and cover one area with newspaper / carboard to ensure less mess. i'll probably get one of those tv turntables too to make turning it easier. any other tips?

2) kind of following on from above i was going to paint the thing once it's been assembled is this a good idea or should i paint the panels before assembly.

3) if i do paint after assembly, how long should i leave between completion and painting? i don't want the paint to crack if there is any settling in the cabinet.

any other observations / tips would be gratefully recieved.

oh yes got an e-mail from ivan this morning, the kit should arrive next friday - can't wait.
cheers

julian
 
Julian,

Make sure the garage is dry, warm and free of dust. I would make a booth from plastic sheeting, paper/cardboard can have dust. Also if you think there is dust, a day or 2 before you could use a water mister. Spray around with that to settle the dust, but leave at least one day to allow the moisture to go. Moisture when spraying gives a cloudy finish.

Paint after assembly, but before any fitting go on the box.

acrylic or cellulose paints are fairly flexible when dry.
 
i think i've found the shade i'm going to use - a daewoo dark red pearlescent, halfords is doing a buy 2 get 1 free at the moment too so kerching! i'm going to resist the flourescent paint they had - highlighter yellow, green or pink nooooooo.
andy, where can i get the mdf sealer from - would focus or b&q have it?
cheers


julian.
 
I'd veneer it with something cheap, and then paint it. This would seal the box more effectively, give it better structural strength, and prevent the shape of the joints from being seen under the paint.

Andrew
 
AndrewR said:
I'd veneer it with something cheap, and then paint it. This would seal the box more effectively, give it better structural strength, and prevent the shape of the joints from being seen under the paint.

Andrew
Click to expand...

Sensible plan. No matter how good your joints are there will (sooner or later) be movement/shrinkage/expansion in the wood which will show under paint.
 
Ju I would agree with penance, get some polythene dustsheets when you are in BBQ they are very inexpensive, I would also spend a LOT of time on the painting, don't rush it, I'd do a coat a day or 2 apart, and sand down well between coats, although best to sand completely away from painting booth.
 
I don't think i'll be able to veneer it this time round - if cracking becomes a problem i can always strip it back, veneer it and then re-paint if i want to.
i'm going to start a thread over in the diy section which i'll be asking a few questions in and hopefully posting pictures as time goes by....
cheers


julian.
 

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