Cable directionality & cables

what do the upgrade freaks do when they play a poorly recorded piece of music? stop playing it because there system doesn't sound at its best? can any upgrade whore really listen to music again once they have been sucked in?

most of my fave music happens to poorly recorded vinyl,particularly Zeppeplin,when compared to expertly produced modern fare such as Snorah Jones,sounds positively horrible.Except its the best rock music ever written,so of course it still gets played a zillion times a year.What my cable is doing to Jimmy Page is nothing compared to what cocaine and vodka did to him when he was playing it,so i think i can make do.


ps i'm not sure i am a wanker though using Johns scale
 
Originally posted by The Devil
Unfortunately (for you) this uninformed opinion is leading you to miss out on a wealth of clarity, detail and dynamics which your system would otherwise exhibit. Your blind prejudice is extraordinary. But when you have never heard anything better, then you will never know...
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Come on James - surely you can see the similarity in the incredible gains claimed from cables with absolutely no scientific basis behind them and the incredible gains claimed from supports with absolutely no scientific basis behind them?

I will conceed that supports have at least some science behind them (microphony effects) and clearly a TT and speakers (and to a lesser extent CD players) as mechanical devices will benefit from supports but the incredible effects claimed for some supports, especially that one extra level (sorry, phase) of mana on top of 9 existing ones can have a :mana: effect are right up there at the pinnacle of audiophoolery.

And the smiley? It's only a bit of fun :)

Michael.
 
John - I think you're going a little OTT aren't you? As to whether anyone here can play music in any meaningful sense I think there are rather a few musicians on the forum. I myself consider myself able to play the piano rather well - not at the level of a professional of course but it's still playing in a meaningful sense. Besides, professional pianists generally earn very little unless they're in tiny top handful of famous ones.

I don't think that anyone's going to be suing anyone over cables either. The people who spend ££££ on cables clearly wouldn't spend it if they didn't think they made a difference - regardless of whether that difference is real or imagined.

Michael.
 
Originally posted by 7_V
Michael, next time you're in England let's see if we can persuade Tone to come down to my place with some cables. I currently have some silver ICs, silver speaker cable and cheap mains leads. I also have a supply of inexpensive ICs we can try.
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I'm coming to the Heathrow show...allthough that may not be the best opportunity to do meaningful cable comparisons.

Michael.
 
Originally posted by michaelab
...surely you can see the similarity in the incredible gains claimed from cables with absolutely no scientific basis behind them and the incredible gains claimed from supports with absolutely no scientific basis behind them?

I will conceed that supports have at least some science behind them (microphony effects)
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I can see the similarity in the claims, but first you say there is no science behind supports, then you say that there is.
the incredible effects claimed for some supports, especially that one extra level (sorry, phase) of mana on top of 9 existing ones can have a effect are right up there at the pinnacle of audiophoolery.
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Well. Mana vibrates in sympathy with whatever is standing upon it. So the vibrational energy is distributed between the box and the Mana stand. The box is having to give up some of its vibrational energy in order to make the stand vibrate as well. If you add another phase of Mana, then the vibrational energy is shared out between the box and the two phases. The first (upper) phase has to give up some of its energy to make the lower phase vibrate as well.

Adding more phases adds to the efficiency of the stack in 'draining away' vibrational energy from the top.

If you ever come up to Glasgow, I will show you the effect in my phase seven speaker stands. It's easy enough to feel it.
 
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Originally posted by The Devil
I can see the similarity in the claims, but first you say there is no science behind supports, then you say that there is.
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Supports are on firmer scientifc ground than cables - not by much though. I've tried many different supports (including Seismic Sinks) and didn't hear a difference with any of them. Surely if there was something in it I'd hear some difference? I find it hard to believe that Mana would miraculously work where nothing else has any effect at all.

Michael.
 
But Mana is a completely different design from the Seismic sink. I agree with you, btw, that the SS has no appreciable effect whatsoever (AFAICT).

Before I tried it out myself, I too thought that I would have the greatest difficulty hearing any difference at all. The improvement was obvious, and far greater than any other support I had tried before, and I had tried quite a few.

The difference between Mana and the others is that Mana actually does what it (doesn't) say on the (not) tin.
 
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Micheal
do you have a solid floor already? maybe tht would explain why it didnt have any effect for you.

Im currently looking for a sink s/h, but bacause i have a very wobbly floor and causes CD skips at higher volume. So im not buying it to gain any miraculous new sound from my system but purely to overcome a problem with my room.
 
Depends how bouncy is bouncy? I have a suspended 'bouncy' floor, works fine. If your floor is truly awful, get a Mana soundshelf, which is what I use for the TT. At phase nine. :D

The rest of the gear (CDP, pre, tuner & DVD player) are floor mounted, but to one side of the fireplace, and the floorboards are orientated so that you physically cannot walk on any of them which are supporting the kit.
 
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I can hear nothing of significance in cables.

Perhaps, as some wag postulated here, my system is not transparent enough but it seems to have no trouble clearly showing up equipment and recording changes.

I'm thrilled to bits with my lack of perception as it has both saved me money and means I can concentrate my upgrade efforts on equipment instead as, for some odd reason, I seem to perceive equipment changes.

Just one final thought 12 years ago I worked in a well known national hifi chain and was on excellent bonuses for cable sales indeed the mark ups were sufficent to make it VERY worthwhile perpetuating all the cable myths.

I still have not seen a convincing double blind test perhaps someone could direct me to a thread or article proving cable myths under scientific conditions? Thanks.
 
Originally posted by penance
Micheal
do you have a solid floor already? maybe tht would explain why it didnt have any effect for you.

Im currently looking for a sink s/h, but bacause i have a very wobbly floor and causes CD skips at higher volume. So im not buying it to gain any miraculous new sound from my system but purely to overcome a problem with my room.
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Why not try the DIY bicycle tyre option?

I can't see how a "proper" one could improve it much? As far as I'm aware the the SS is just an air bladder in a nice box? Going a bit off topic now.
 
Jeez, you guys are bitchy at the moment. I am going to have to leave the house, cos of the gloss paint. I hope you've all made up when I return.

Lets face it, no one cared about cables until the end of the 70s, because, if your system was dull on record A, you turned the treble to +2. If it lacked bass, you turned the bass to +3.

Guys, what you really want is some control over how it sounds...not just 'swap part X for Y' until it sounds OK on Al Dimeola records..

Saab used Led Zepp vinyl for comparison. I'd say, for 70s rock, it was very well recorded..but it wasnt made for 'dry and squeaky' nancy-boy 21st Century speakers.

70's vinyl was often cut with reduced bass -n- treble, allowing bigger dynamics, no limiting, easy cutting etc. Putting back what was missing was easy..you just turn the knob. You lot need some tone controls. Anyone who is after a pre-amp should maybe risk £40/£67 on a mixer first:

http://www.bkelec.com/special/sp6.htm

http://www.bkelec.com/special/sp7.htm
 
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Hi Penance,

"So i went out and bought me a leisure suit
I jingle my change but I'm still kind of cute
Got a job doing radio promo
An none of the jocks can even tell I'm a homo."
 
Hi Paul

"Oh God I am the American dream
With a spindle up my butt till it makes me scream
An' I'll do anything to get ahead
I lay awake nights sayin' thank you, Fred
Oh God, oh God, I'm so fantastic!
Thanks to Freddie, I'm a sexual spastic"

;) :D
 
Originally posted by The Devil
... Mana vibrates in sympathy with whatever is standing upon it. So the vibrational energy is distributed between the box and the Mana stand. The box is having to give up some of its vibrational energy in order to make the stand vibrate as well. If you add another phase of Mana, then the vibrational energy is shared out between the box and the two phases. The first (upper) phase has to give up some of its energy to make the lower phase vibrate as well.

Adding more phases adds to the efficiency of the stack in 'draining away' vibrational energy from the top.
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I understand what you're saying above but a couple of aspects puzzle me.

Can we assume that the vibration you describe in each 'phase' of Mana is inaudible?

Also, this theory seems to work on the assumption that the vibrational energy starts at the top and is 'drained away'. Surely the bulk of this energy is produced by the speakers interacting with the floor. How does the mana work for this?

Not that it matters. If you like the sound of Mana in your set-up then that in itself is good enough. In many areas, a scientific explanation is great but by no means necessary for good sound.
 
Originally posted by michaelab
I'm coming to the Heathrow show...allthough that may not be the best opportunity to do meaningful cable comparisons.
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To right Michael. In fact, having read and reread JohnMak's posts, I'm having a rethink anyway.

As all cables, amps and cdps sound the same anyway, I'm coming round to the idea that I could sell more speakers if I demonstrate them using a mini-system from Dixon's.

It will obviously sound the same but will be one hell of a lot more impressive. Don't tell Tone yet though. I have a feeling he may not like the idea.

JohnMak, I'm relieved that you haven't said that all speakers sound the same. Otherwise, it's back to web site designing for me.
 

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