Cable directionality & cables

If I was currently in need of cables, I'd buy some mic cable off the reel and terminate it to my aesthetic preference. About a tenner for 10 metres. As it is, I have a mixture of mic cable, JVC, Ixos, and budget VDH, most of which came with various bits of equipment (I didn't want to pay for cables, so always negotiated to have something thrown in FOC when I bought anything new from a dealer).

For power cables, I use what comes with the equipment. Don't have any speaker cable in the main rig, but I use Shark copper cable (cheap, from Maplins) for the second system and for the main system when I revert to a passive speaker setup.

I estimate the RRP of my cables to be about 2% of total system cost. Seems a bit high to me, now I think about it...

-- Ian
 
Kirk, I haven't dissed anybody.

Merlin was being a touch provocative, as he likes to be. I was just responding in kind. I honestly don't give a fig if people want to believe, that's entirely up to them. As long as they like what they like, that's OK by me. *

-- Ian

* Obviously, they're nuts, but as long as they're no danger I don't think they should be locked up
 
Re: Chaps

Originally posted by mick parry
If someone really thinks that they can hear the difference when a cable is connected one way or the other, then fair enough. I will just continue to think that they are as mad as a fish.
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Crikey, then Naim are the loopiest of trouts:D Those dudes must believe they can hear a difference otherwise why bother to mark the cables?
The majority of cables are also free with their gear, so you can't accuse 'em of some cunning marketing strategy.
 
Originally posted by merlin
It's every bit as easy to imagine you cannot hear anything as it is to imagine you do. The power of suggestion, courtesy of Wolfy Datty & co, seems to have worked on those that are easily persuaded:(
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Merlin - that's just utter BS I'm afraid. My conversion to objectivist is completely unrelated to the opinions of anyone on the forum :rolleyes:

Why would I let wolfgan and dat19 (neither of whom I know the slightest thing about) influence my opinion more than, for example, your good self or wadia-miester, both of whom I've met more than once and think of as thouroughly good blokes? :)

My "road to Damascus" moment actually came after trying out a Trichord 500VA power conditioner in my system where it did absolutely nothing, and I wasn't the only person to think so. I realised I'd bought a lot of things "blind" on the advice of others and that I really hadn't noticed any difference. The Olson mains blocks and the Isolda speaker cable being prime examples.

Originally posted by sideshowbob
Not true, actually. All the research I've seen suggests quite the opposite, as does my experience. I've found it's very easy to convince myself I've heard a difference when I change a cable, or whatever. It actually takes an effort to prove to my own satisfaction that I'm fooling myself. Having made the effort I'm now quite good at spotting when I'm having myself on.
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Spot on. I couldn't have put it better myself.

Yesterday at lowrider's place we compared his Apogee Wyde-Eye XLR cables with my VDH D102III XLR cables (from pre to power). I swear to you that I heard not one iota of a difference. Lowrider OTOH was quite convinced his Apogee's were better ;) . It's not even a price issue, my VDH's are actually slightly more expensive than his Apogees.

Michael.
 
Of course it isnt an issue of mine versus yours, I didnt even feel like comparing the cables any more, but as they where there, what the heck... :rolleyes:

It was not a night and day difference, of course, I was teasing Michael... :p

But the Apogees did sound clearer in the midrange, and there was no placebo at all, as I never heard any opinions on either of the cables, also, I bought the Apogees because they where the only reasonable priced balanced ICs I found in Lisbon... :MILD:
 
Re: Chaps

Originally posted by mick parry

Also if buying expensive cable keeps someone happy, then fair enough
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Or, as John Borwick, former audio editor of "Gramophone" once put it to me in a letter back in the '80s when the cable business was just starting and I queried it:

"To us ("Gramophone" reviewers), one good quality cable sounds very much like another. However, I would never dissuade an enthusiast from giving his super-system a birthday present, if paying over the odds makes him feel better".

This encapsulates my feeelings exactly.
 
Originally posted by michaelab
Yesterday at lowrider's place we compared his Apogee Wyde-Eye XLR cables with my VDH D102III XLR cables (from pre to power). I swear to you that I heard not one iota of a difference. Michael.
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Ah but you would not want to would you Michael;)

The power of suggestion works both ways guys, and if you want to suggest that some of us are imagining the affects of cabling and other tweaks, then you too must accept that you just might have conditioned your mind to blank out any differences you might detect (just as a fire walker might not notice the hot coals). There's been an unusually high incidence of cynicism on this forum of late and it would be a fool who denies that there is a possibility that some of it has subconciously rubbed off.

Even I'm using a system with no mains treatments and connected with patchchords supplied by a local music shop. And thoroughly enjoying the results;)
 
Originally posted by sideshowbob
Merlin was being a touch provocative,
-- Ian


Rubbish Ian,

just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me provocative, unless of course you are unreasonably intolerant;)
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Originally posted by merlin
Ah but you would not want to would you Michael;)
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Why wouldn't I want to? I'd be honest and humble enough to admit I was wrong, if I hear differences I will glady admit to them. It's much easier to imagine something that isn't there than deny the existence of something that is, even something subtle. When Antonio switched between surround and stereo on his system it was a clearly audible, but subtle, difference even though his rear's are currently out of action. I felt the soundstage had far more depth and clarity in stereo and that bringing in the centre speaker made it less enjoyable. This was with stereo source material btw using DPLII for surround.

I haven't had time yet but I will shortly be testing my Eupens against some stock cords and also my Isolda against the Dynaudio OCOS which I got with my speakers. There may well be some items for sale in the near future ;)

I want to get the best I can out of my system within my budget and I would gladly spent it on whatever made that difference. Do you seriously think I'd be so twisted about proving a point that I'd willingly make my system worse on principle? :rolleyes:

To expand on my "conversion" I think I was probably always a sceptic but allowed myself to be taken in for a while. Everyone was recommending these "amazing" products that do wonders for your system so I bought them (Olsons, Eupens, Isolda). In every case I thought, "Hmm...I don't really see what they're on about" but I went along with it because I thought maybe my hearing wasn't good enough or maybe my system wasn't transparent enough or a number of other convenient excuses. The Trichord powerblock was the last straw and I decided it was time to come clean and be honest with myself.

Michael.
 
just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me provocative, unless of course you are unreasonably intolerant;)
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I read your description of Michael as being "easily persuaded" as provocative, don't think that makes me intolerant (unreasonably or reasonably).

I don't expect anyone to agree with me, if they're happy being wrong that's fine by me. :)

I want to get the best I can out of my system within my budget and I would gladly spent it on whatever made that difference. Do you seriously think I'd be so twisted about proving a point that I'd willingly make my system worse on principle?
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Very well said.

-- Ian
 
Re: Chaps

Originally posted by mick parry
If someone really thinks that they can hear the difference when a cable is connected one way or the other, then fair enough. I will just continue to think that they are as mad as a fish.

Also if buying expensive cable keeps someone happy, then fair enough, I will continue to think that they are a mug.

Now we are all happy.

Regards

Mick
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Mick,

I am amazed that you are happy when the technical staff at Naim are "mad as fish".

Cheers

Jason
 
Originally posted by michaelab
Why wouldn't I want to? I'd be honest and humble enough to admit I was wrong, if I hear differences I will glady admit to them. It's much easier to imagine something that isn't there than deny the existence of something that is, even something subtle. When Antonio switched between surround and stereo on his system it was a clearly audible, but subtle, difference even though his rear's are currently out of action. I felt the soundstage had far more depth and clarity in stereo and that bringing in the centre speaker made it less enjoyable. This was with stereo source material btw using DPLII for surround.
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That is not honest and humble enough, there was an audible volume increase when switching to stereo... :p
 
Originally posted by sideshowbob
I read your description of Michael as being "easily persuaded" as provocative, don't think that makes me intolerant (unreasonably or reasonably).

-- Ian
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Sounds like my post contained sufficient provocation eh;)

Why wouldn't I want to? I'd be honest and humble enough to admit I was wrong, if I hear differences I will glady admit to them.
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But Michael, the subconcious is a powerful thing;)

Firstly I feel you need to open your mind and think for yourself.
 
Merlin, you are such a wind-up merchant.

Be warned, if you open your mind too wide, your brain falls out.

-- Ian
 
Originally posted by Kirk Bennett
...some of which do [exist]..............the effect of cable directionality is for me an example.
Dude, if ya don't believe in it, fine, but don't diss folks that can hear a difference.
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Not dissing you, Mr Bennett, merely raising an eyebrow. The good folk at Naim also believe that their CDPs sound better with the display switched off, and some of the Naim forum members say that you should mute the record bank of switches on the preamp for a lift in performance. This way madness lies.

Naim ARE in the business of after market cables and they are not cheap - new Burndy being a not inconsiderable £250 - for no return in terms of improved sound.

I think different cables do sound different - but this is a separate issue from that of directionality. Nordost, for example, sound worse the more expensive they are.
 
Never said you were dissin' me.........that was aimed at Ian.
Dude, you never answered my earlier question......

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by The Devil
You can train your hearing. When I was a student, I could never hear the murmur of mitral stenosis. Once I was told what to listen for, and with some more experience under my belt, I could.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Me:
Dude, okay dokey...............does this now mean you believe the murmur of mitral stenosis exists? If so, then in the same way so does the effect of cable directionality...................once you're told what to listen for, and with some experience under your belt.
 
Whilst I accept that you cannot prove a negative... The difference is that there is absolutely no reason to believe that the alleged phenomenon of 'cable directionality' exists, because there is absolutely no evidence in support of it.

By contrast, the murmur of mitral stenosis can be recorded and displayed on a phonocardiogram, for instance.
 

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