Cable Happy.

[Shiner]

Then why are you listening to hifi at all?

(ie if you don't feel you can beleive your own senses?)

I listen to music, not hifi.

 

[DavidF]

I listen to music, not hifi.

Yes, John, so do we all...

..but my question was ...if we sceptical about our senses ot the extent that we don't believe sonic differeneces between shall we say, cough, between cables, then how do you know you hearing ANY good quality equipment?

ie perhpts that is to use BBSs word ......."deceptive"??



quote;

The senses deceive.

edit; sorry got it......

your goign to say that a good amplifier can be "measured" over a lesser amplifier.(?)

 

[Stereo Mic]

Then why are you listening to hifi at all?

(ie if you don't feel you can beleive your own senses?)

The only sense you should need is hearing. To isolate that when auditioning, it is imperative that you are unable to rely on any of the others. I find it incredibly ironic that those who state the science are happy to let their ears decide, and those claiming to do just that avoid doing so at every possible opportunity - relying instead on sales literature and general trade BS

 

[anon_bb]

That doesnt stop music from being enjoyable

Then why are you listening to hifi at all?

(ie if you don't feel you can beleive your own senses?)

 

[sastusbulbas]

Sadly true - they keep avoiding the issue.

UnclePuncle,

If you read previous threads you will find out what science teaches us about audio cables. You will find out what my position is, and that of any number of other contributors. Have a look for LCR. Good luck. I really can't be bothered repeating this ad infinitum because there are some utter imbeciles (or as Romy would say "audio morons") here who still don't seem to understand.

Sadly, if you look through the posts all you will see is how blinkered and ignorant certain people are. Most of your insults are pathetic comming from someone with your attitude.

Your argument and piss taking have very poor foundations.

To Quote;
Let's clarify for you. In all probability 90-95% of cables are electrically similar. It's fairly simple to make a cable that does what is required of an audio cable. Just because one claims to have two strands of Elephant cock smeared in Mr P's sacred sperm does not make it in any way different elecrically speaking. All we care about are inductance, capacitance and resistance.

You only want to take the piss out anyone and everyone who MAY have similar beliefs that cables can produce different results.

You base all argument on the basis of all being "electrically similar"

Your defence is "all that matters is LCR".

Its not a case of utter morons or imbeciles not understanding you, its you comming accross as a complete twat because your theory seems to be based on your belief system.

You say that all that matters is LCR, and all electricaly similar cables sound the same.

My examples and the point I was trying top put across was simlple, not all audio cables have the same LCR, nor are they of similar electrical construction, or physical construction.

If they were, you would not have issue's such as amplifier compatability, as can be had with old Naim and Spectral, nor the difference in measurement and dynamic loss as I posted earlier with two spkr cables.

So on one hand, we can have people like you post simplistic views on what matters, based on clarifying the probability of electricaly similar simple easy to construct cable having no difference to complex construction with "fancy" materials. Stating therefor that anyone who believes or hears otherwise is a moron.

And on the other hand, someone not asking about making cables, but about those cables available to the consumer which may have different "electrical similarities" and different construction methods, therefor may have diferent LCR.

In other words, instead of theorising about all that is required and passing judgement based on what makes a good cable, and judging cable and its users on cost, and going on about LCR, why don't people look at what measurable differences may be present in some present consumer cables, which may explain why some people using them could be claiming to hear differences.

As I was trying to point out, this was done by HiFi News during 1997, and 1999. Which when I was told I was lying, I produced (with the intention to point out I was not lying) references which led to the above articles and mentioned them.

So basing an argument on all cables being electricaly similar with all that matters being LCR, and ignoring the opinion that already constructed consumer cables may be different seems ludicrous.

And remember I am not talking about cost value and what people hear, just pointing out that there are measurable differences, and not all consumer audio cables conform to one's simple view of "similar electrical construction" and optimum LCR.

 

[Neil]

Unlike many I find these debates stimulating - I have a nagging doubt that despite what common sense and my scientific background tell me (although I wouldn't claim to be an expert in anything much I have reasonable post graduate qualifications and have done some PhD supervision in my time) I recall a (completely unscientific btw) illustration which made me think a bit about cables. In the late '90s I was debating cables with a hi-fi enthusiast friend who was convinced by a RA demo and was attempting to convert me (sceptic / studiospares guy). With apologies to those who have heard this here's what happened. His system was I recall Burmeister CD and amps (he also had some AVI kit). We started with my "kettle leads" and cables and listened for a while. He Kimbered-up the system - 8TCM powercords, KCAG interconnects and , I think (?) 8TC speaker cable. The difference was noticable. After that we moved back to my cables. Again the system sounded very different. Obviously many variables here but it made an impression on me.

 

[zanash]

Amazing have you noticed that when SM starts to lose the arguement he [?] always resorts to abuse or calling people names and seem particularly fond of calling people liars....

how does he get away with ......?

So the laws of physics now don't apply to SM !

seems theres about four very loud mouthed clotheared chaps on here that insist on tell everyone else what there not hearing.

I think its time to show them for what they are ..... just a few sad people who have a very limited life experience and are so insecure in the ability to use there ears they have to perpetuate these personal attacks as the find themselves further from the main stream of hifi.

How can some one who use some of the very best cables argue that they have no effect ......imo thats hypocritical in the extreme.

If they believed what they spout then the freebie cables should be perfectly adequate ......anything else is hypocrisy

 

[Stereo Mic]

http://www.verber.com/mark/ce/cables.html

http://www.vxm.com/21R.64.html

http://sound.westhost.com/cables.htm

http://www.audioholics.com/educatio...n-audio-cable-vendor-is-selling-you-snake-oil

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/skin-effect-relevance-in-speaker-cables

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/audio-cable-break-in-science-or-psychological

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/debunking-the-myth-of-speaker-cable-resonance

 

[vroomfondle]

I think its time to show them for what they are ..... just a few sad people who have a very limited life experience and are so insecure in the ability to use there ears they have to perpetuate these personal attacks as the find themselves further from the main stream of hifi.

Very scientific. A really well thought out reasoned argument from someone with no vested interest in the subject.

 

[lordsummit]

I've closed this thread now, it's going nowhere and has degenerated into the personal yet again.
I'll remove it later