Cable Myths Debunked.

Thanks for that Shinobiwan. I'd love to do some blind capacitor tests as well... I know people who DIY swear by the audiophile variety yet experienced professionals mock. Where lies the truth?
 
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Stereo Mic said:
No idea I'm afraid - they were what I was given. The yellow one at the top is a different make I think. I'm afraid I haven't listened to any others - but will tell you the well known speaker designers I know think audiophile caps are as dubious as the cable claims.

Layout is common sense surely? You didn't comment on the cheap inductors? Shame ;-)
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You rubbish stuff but 'accidentally' use it.

The inductors aren't 'audiophile' -that's precisely why I didn't mention them.
The layout is common sense, true and reflects current audiophile thinking.
 
cooky1257 said:
The layout is common sense, true and reflects current audiophile thinking.
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Its not audiophile thinking. Its minimising interference/interaction between crossover components. Its exactly the same thing as PCB layout and therefore science.

This isn't tweaky unsubstantiated hearsay but proven and accepted methodology.
 
cooky1257 said:
You rubbish stuff but 'accidentally' use it.
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I haven't rubbished capacitors - I have no experience of others. I was given all of the components on these boards - probably why they are from a mishmash of manufacturers. You conveniently ignore the terminal blocks, board, cheap wire and basic inductors and pick up on a few capacitors you recognise. I'd say that was fairly blinkered and childish but we'll let the jury decide ;-)

Thanks Shiobiwan - nice to see a few sensible people popping their heads above the parapit.
 
ShinOBIWAN said:
Its not audiophile thinking. Its minimising interference/interaction between crossover components. Its exactly the same thing as PCB layout and therefore science.

This isn't tweaky unsubstantiated hearsay but proven and accepted methodology.
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I agree on the layout's proven methodology but it wasn't always thus was it?or has this minimisation of interference always been taken into consideration then?-only I'm old enough to remember hard wiring and sensible component layout being a 'new' thing flogged to audiophiles as a good thing.
 
cooky1257 said:
I agree on the layout's proven methodology but it wasn't always thus was it?or has this minimisation of interference always been taken into consideration then?-only I'm old enough to remember hard wiring and sensible component layout being a 'new' thing flogged to audiophiles as a good thing.
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The interaction of crossover components(mainly inductors) has always been there, its not something that came along later and then accounted for.

Its always been standard practice amongst EE's to account for and be aware of this. It wouldn't surprise me if the hifi industry claimed it was ground breaking to be aware of this and hence brought performance upto a new level by adhering to these basic tenants. However there's nothing audiophile about it and is just standard good practise much like not using a 6" bass driver for a sub would be.
 
an easy way to finally put this cable thing to rest would be someone with a DEQ to do a sweep and then change the cables and do another sweep and check if different frequencies need altering.
 
I suppose what we have here is a slightly different take on the term audiophile;-)
Where I think the majority are w****rs, I'm guessing you think all of 'em are!
 
fox said:
KICX0942.jpg


those are screwfix radiators. I've fitted a few of them. Artex Wall?
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Well spotted that man. The Artex walls are proving harder to get rid of than a pile of Mana these days. A stylistic faux pas - I'd like to fit all new stud walls but I guess that's not as cheap as the rads.
 
Indeed - circuits designed by genetic programming can achieve the same effect as conventional circuits but with half the number of components by making use of 2nd order effects and interactions between components. This proves the issue of layout is crucial.
 
cooky1257 said:
Where I think the majority are w****rs, I'm guessing you think all of 'em are!
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Your spot on there.

I've met very few 'audiophiles', virtually all of them at hifi shows. Nowadays I think to be called such a thing is an insult more than anything.

Hobbyist or music lover are far better terms and I've met plenty of those good folks none of which take kindly to being called an audiophile.
 
Wickfut said:
an easy way to finally put this cable thing to rest would be someone with a DEQ to do a sweep and then change the cables and do another sweep and check if different frequencies need altering.
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done it ....

but the results were shouted down....even the 2db differences were considered as errors ...

waste of time

if you can't hear it with your own set of auditory measuring devices [ears] then no amount of scientific instruments will persuade you other wise.....everyone knows that cables don't make a difference thats why if you don't use the freebies your a hypocrite.
 
Use a line in feed rather than the mic feed. I bet you dont get 2 db differences then!
 
Stereo Mic said:
Well spotted that man. The Artex walls are proving harder to get rid of than a pile of Mana these days. A stylistic faux pas - I'd like to fit all new stud walls but I guess that's not as cheap as the rads.
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When I got rid of the artex on my bathroom ceiling, the guy stapled the artex up (to bear the weight), and then covered it with a layer of UPVC glue (to give the plaster something to cling to).

He then just skimmed over the top with plaster.

Perhaps the same thing can be done with your walls?

Now is probably the time to ask, before you paint the whole thing :D
 
Wickfut said:
an easy way to finally put this cable thing to rest would be someone with a DEQ to do a sweep and then change the cables and do another sweep and check if different frequencies need altering.
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as long as
1. the 2 cables had the same lcr values
2. there was some 'unproven technological hook' involved in 1 of the cables (i.e. funky dialectrics, strange windings, silver, gold, platinum, carbon fibre, the material du jour) that was claimed to make it sound better and the other was of a 'standard' constructions the other cable (i.e. copper, no funky dialectrics or winding, etc.) or there was a significant price difference (i.e. £1 per meter vs £100 per meter, etc.)

i'm open minded to these things but have done enough objective listening to make these my own personal decisions on the cable debate.

1. yes cables can sound different - but at the moment i believe this is purely down to lcr differences and how they interact with the amp used.

2. price is no measure of what sounds good.

3. materials have no noticeable effect on the sound produced it's all down to lcr.

of course i'm not an electrical engineer, scientist or voodoo magician so i'm jsut going off what my experience and ears tell me and as ever you are free to make your own minds up, ymmv and all that.
 
Julian a better test would be to put 2 cables that people think are different to this test. Not some you think are the same.

I suggest first test should be - Do cables that appear different measure different? I feel that that the reason identical LCRs have been brought into the equation is because some worry that a statisical difference between cables under some conditions might be uncovered.

Andy
 
Hi Andy

I don't think anyones said it's impossible that 2 cables can sound different. You could make one out of chewed string after all..

I feel LCR has been in people's arguements since the very beginning.

I agree totally, if you ignore LCR and let anything through the net, a statistical difference could be seen.

That's rather crazy though to me, it's rather like saying you can make a car out of spaghetti.... well yes, but it will taste better than it drives :D
 

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