CD v Vinyl - My preference.

Agree totally with James. My LP12 required no fiddling at all - just make sure it's level (with Mr. Mana's nice little level), bouncing nicely on its springs and you're away. Once set in its new home, it has never again needed adjustment.

Dom, the question that would be asked of you in Belfast is, "Who stole yer bun?" That is, what has someone done to upset you that you go off on a major rant every time the letters "LP" are mentioned in close juxtaposition with the number "12"? It clearly is something beyond a mere listening test of a rather small sample of the universe's LP12s. Now I've nothing against you having a blind, irrational prejudice (which is clearly what it is) - this is your privilege and we all have our blind spots. However, you constantly expound a view that has both feet firmly planted in the air, with no basis in reality. I think you should confront it with some rationality. The LP12 may not be the world's greatest turntable, but it's PDG, otherwise it wouldn't be the success that it is. Good heavens, even I noticed its superiority over my old Thorens, which is why I bought it (second-hand).

My last word on the subject.
 
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the figures don't take the "no matter how tightly the vinyl is packed there's always space for one more" phenomenon into account :D
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I know exactly what you mean. Something the laws of physics don't seem to able to explain!

-- Ian
 
Vinyl rules---it RULES.

You'd have to have ears of cloth to think otherwise.

Rules I tells yer!!

On a more objective note, Vinyl playback is often accused of euphony, benign coloration etc etc "the vinyl sound" if you like. A decent modern turntable and a large number of classic decks exhibit none of these supposed traits. My Xerxes for example is as tight and fast as a Scotsman leaving before his round, certainly not warm wooly or anything like that..

As for set up mine was done about a year back and I've not touched it since,it's still perfectly set, I'm sure an LP12 is the same.

I really think that in most cases the main deciding factor is convienence and ease of use. Vinyl is fussy, annoying at times and often noise can be a bit intrusive with classical and music with not too much going on. However the rewards of TT use are, in my opinion, greater than the disadvantages. A well made TT is a beautiful piece of engineering, much as a LP sleeve is usually a nice piece of art in it's own right.

I think for those with the patience, mind set and necessary cash vinyl is superb, whereas CD makes decent quality more accessable to more people at it's lower price.

One final point, I never went to CD and view the current vinyl revival with self satisfied smugness, I'm not one to say I told you so, but....
 
Originally posted by tones
Dom, the question that would be asked of you in Belfast is, "Who stole yer bun?" That is, what has someone done to upset you that you go off on a major rant every time the letters "LP" are mentioned in close juxtaposition with the number "12"?
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I dunno really - I guess mainly because Linn stole the design from Ariston and tried to claim their deck was the best ever in the entire history of mankind, the fact it won't play 45s without either an adaptor that knackers the motor or an expensive Lingo PSU that ruins the sound of linear-mode amps if on the same mains spur, the fact that if you walk near one it sounds like a tape player with dying batteries or it skips and scratches your record in the process, and also the fact that my Rega 3 peed all over the vendor's top of the line Linn at a tenth of the price (and with a knackered cartridge). So maybe I *am* deaf, but at least I'm not having to pay out every year or so for a setup and a belt for my Rega doesn't cost the same as 2 bottles of decent whisky.

Oh yeah, and of course, parts for a Linn are a blatant rip BECAUSE it says "Linn" on it. I mean, a set of bearings for the Ekos cost more than a Rega RB300 arm, and yet the Rega uses IDENTICAL bearings!

I mean each to their own and all that, but the automatic assumption from all Linnies that you're deaf if you don't like an LP12 doesn't help either ;)

That's not a dig here, but it seems Linn owners are similar to Naimies - if you dare to diss their product they then go onto a rant themselves - almost as if they're trying to justify their overly expensive average sounding turntable purchase. Well, it certainly seems that way on the Naim or PFM forums.

People here are more open minded...

Mind you, I have heard a couple of LP12s I DO like the sound of - primarily ones with decent (ie non-Linn) arms. The Linn/Naim combo they have in Audio-T in Reading for example is an excellent turntable, but then it's on a solid concrete floor which prevents my two biggest bugbears with the Linn over the Rega or a Michell.
 
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Originally posted by domfjbrown
I the fact that if you walk near one it sounds like a tape player with dying batteries or it skips and scratches your record in the process
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Wrong again - I can jump up and down on the floor beside it and nothing happens. I can even drum on the plinth and still nothing happens. Some of those you've heard may have acted in the way you describe, but, seriously, is that really a justification for slating every LP12 made? And whether Linn stole it or not has precisely nothing to do with the price of fish. The fact that you mention this is a further indication that we are dealing with an irrational prejudice, not a reasoned opinion based on the facts. I think you need to get over that - I can only hope that you don't approach the rest of life in that manner.
 
Jools, you may find the 'gap has closed some what' :)
I will confess, the best sound I've personally heard is a TT with valves, for sheer musicality and flow, without question.
However, thats only one so far out of more than few
The TT was Well tempered Ref, Manley Steelheads amps.
Prehaps Jools, we should all listen to a properly set TT and CD, and see what comes out of the experinace. T.
 
I've never heard a vinyl setup that was unequivocally "better" than my CD based system (or any number of good CD systems I've heard).

There's nothing about the sound quality of vinyl that would make me want to get a TT. If I were to add a TT to my system it would be only as a way to explore certain types of music that are predominantly available only on vinyl and the fact that large collections of vinyl can be bought relatively cheaply.

Michael.
 
Are we Audiophiles or do we want HiFi?

Do we want a system that sounds nice or do we want a system that is accurate?

Personally, I fall into the latter camp. I know what a master tape sounds like throu big, active ATCs and that's what I want to hear in my living room.
 
WM I have to be fair only heard a high end Naim CD player and a MF in my system and was quite impressed I have no doubt that CD has come a hell of a long way, I still remember vividly a demo at Walrus of a Amazon TT, Morch Arm, Clearaudio Insider and Lavardin amps into Harbeths...Best sound I have ever heard in a attainable system.

I hate the whole Vinyl vs CD debate I think the real enemy of those into Stereo is the ever onward march of compressed digital formats over the web and multi channel systems.

I forecast that if record companies can make more money from less quality they will do so without hesitation. I'm worried that in the not too distant future decent new music will be hard to get on any format I'd like to own!!

I have high hopes for SACD and the like but when I see the catalog my hopes fade somewhat.
 
Jools, fair comment sir, also I feel the *way* a person prefers their style of music plays a big part in the whole source choice as well.
But for sure a lot of good music sounds so much better on Vinyl.
Including a lot of stuff I like too, however I woun't be aquirring a TT, no room for the Vinyl, plus the usuall TT anal bits.
However, I do like a class TT set up, but have listen to make 50+, and maybe 8-10 of them we right.
Mike, you really do need to listen to a proper TT sir :) then you'll realise exactly HOW much is missing T.
 
Originally posted by tones
Some of those you've heard may have acted in the way you describe, but, seriously, is that really a justification for slating every LP12 made?
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Well, based on the 7 or so I've seen, 6 were ridiculously sensitive to this, so that's, err, about what, 86% based on my experience, so I think it's fair to slate them, yeah. But like I say, I've seen one that I liked the sound of, but all the same, they're too delicate to use if you drink more than 1 beer and so that negates me wanting to own one. I can use a Michell Orbe totally ratarsed (ask Henryt) but can barely use an LP12 sober, so that writes off one no matter how good they are.

Originally posted by tones
And whether Linn stole it or not has precisely nothing to do with the price of fish.
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Yes it does - I hate plageurism (sp?) - it's wimp out cheating. Originality is the way forward - it's for this reason I dislike cover songs as well.

Originally posted by tones
The fact that you mention this is a further indication that we are dealing with an irrational prejudice, not a reasoned opinion based on the facts. I think you need to get over that - I can only hope that you don't approach the rest of life in that manner.
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I don't approach everything in life like that, no. Only some things. But we won't go into that - that's all been done to death a few months back I think. And I'm more leniant on that stuff now too, so that's good :)
 
Originally posted by Nik
Are we Audiophiles or do we want HiFi?

Do we want a system that sounds nice or do we want a system that is accurate?

Personally, I fall into the latter camp. I know what a master tape sounds like throu big, active ATCs and that's what I want to hear in my living room.
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I prefer accuracy. And I also prefer vinyl, on the whole. Isn't life complicated?

-- Ian
 
i dont think we can say turntables are innacurate, CDs are accurate... nor that TTs are coloured, and CD is not...

Conversely, I dont think we can say that TTs provide more realism, better sounstage or any other such words...

CDPs and TTs are so infinately variable with component changes - all the way from power supply mods to caps to carts... you can get such variation in sound from both, it seems to me.

Perhaps the analogy of a car and a motorbike seems appropriate. They are different formats.. but we can make either higher or lower performance by attending to price/component quality/design.

A Seat 125 or a formula 1 car, a 50cc scooter, or a Honda Fireblade. >> a direct drive sansui TT, a Platine Verdier. A Matsui CD player, a DCS 3 box.

If we love hifi because we love music, then surely our software availability/choice/collection should dictate our favoured format.

On a final note,
I feel that a format preference is somewhat dependant on prefered style of presentation, and the sound of the system components when used together - which may favour a certain source.
 
Dom, two words: Wall + Shelf.

Any suspended TT on a suspended floor will get footfall problems. You are merely describing sub-optimal setup, and your criticism has no validity.
 
Chris Beautifully diplomatic sir :)
Bottom line is which ever format medium you use, if it DOES IT FOR you for what ever reason, then your sorted.
Although a TT I'll never own, I do admire the qualities of a correct set up vinyl system. T.
 
If we love hifi because we love music, then surely our software availability/choice/collection should dictate our favoured format.
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Exactly, I think this is a major reason I like vinyl so much, most the factory stuff is on vinyl and the CD versions just some how lost a lot of music.
 
Just wondered if other people think this way....


If I walk into a second hand record shop (vinyl) or to my record collection and pick up... for example a first edition copy of a Beatles album, or Neil Young or whatever.

- It was made when the music was in the shops, it was enjoyed by someone when that music was in the charts... it somehow isnt just a format FOR music, it IS music - its like its embodied somehow with the time of release itself.

I think of a CD much like I do a video game or a DVD - its just a silver disc to me - no association with much at all really..

Anyone else?
 
If I walk into a second hand record shop (vinyl) or to my record collection and pick up... for example a first edition copy of a Beatles album, or Neil Young or whatever.

- It was made when the music was in the shops, it was enjoyed by someone when that music was in the charts... it somehow isnt just a format FOR music, it IS music - its like its embodied somehow with the time of release itself.
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Exactly. Records are relatively affordable slices of musical history (as of course are CDs for material released from the mid 80s onward).

I want the real thing - I want an album as it was originally released, and for most music that means vinyl - if you are as picky as I am that means a first pressing too. A CD reissue of say a 50s jazz album is nothing more than a fake, a cheap tacky facsimile of the real thing. CDs are not even good copies, they are the wrong size for a startââ'¬Â¦

Tony.
 

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