Class 66 trains - Modern day antiques?

[amazingtrade]

The amount of money they wasted on that project begars belief. No doubt in 20 years like they will still be running HSTs, and 91s on the East Coast, at least on the weat coast we have nice modern trains now .

 

[I-S]

The APT was a fantastic bit of engineering. Absolutely typical of british approach to these things which is to can it when you've done 90% of the work and are very close to the result.

It made passengers sea-sick due to poor settings in the tilt mechanism (which no-one had tried before). As it was, the principles they worked out are the basis of the Pendolino (italian) and Super-Voyager (canadian) today.

Garrard - I moved from southampton in 2003 so haven't ridden that line more recently. For me it's the bus-on-rails-excuse-for-a-train that provides the stopping service between manchester victoria and huddersfield now.

 

[amazingtrade]

Argh that route uses Leyland 142s dosn't it? I very very rarely use them but had to get one to Hyde a few months back and it was horrible.

The version I read was that the they tried to make it so you could not feel the tilt, but the body could see you the train was going round a corner but not feel it, this what made people feel sick. With the Bentolino they made it so you could feel the corners much more resulting in a much more natural ride. I personaly love going round bends at 100mph in them, its such a wondeful feeling.

The HST at 100mph does not feel the same.

With the tilt machanisim am I right in thinking that the UK still owns the patent for it?

 

[Uncle Ants]

The version I read was that the they tried to make it so you could not feel the tilt, but the body could see you the train was going round a corner but not feel it, this what made people feel sick. With the Bentolino they made it so you could feel the corners much more resulting in a much more natural ride. I personaly love going round bends at 100mph in them, its such a wondeful feeling.

I heard he truth of it was that a bunch of pissed hacks on the inaugural trip felt giddy, but as I understand it, the state they were in they'd have felt giddy if it was standing still.

 

[amazingtrade]

I've heared that version as well, and the press just kept giving BR a bad time. They said what so wondeful when trains in Europe can do 150mph (at the time) etc, what they the stupid press were to thick to realise is that everything is much closer in the country meaning our signals are much closer together, when a train driver does 150mph and sees an orange signal it can't stop in time for the next signal. I think the stopping distance is still set to 1.25 miles this day, meaning that if you're doing 125mph you can stop in time for the next signal which will be red.

Its a real shame that APT was not a sucess, but it was rushed and not finished properly,like everything any UK government does

I think we just need to admit that the French and Germans are better at building than trains than us Oh and the Italians!

 

[midlifecrisis]

This train is a year old but looking at the bodyshell you would expect it be from the early 60's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:66573_at_Ipswich.jpg

you will find me legging down exactly the platform in that picture every evening on my way home from London!
whatever the locos, that line has gone completely down the drain since One took over the franchise. Crap service, no apparent maintenance on the rolling stock, obscene prices in the buffet (£1 for a 40p packet of peanuts, £1.65 for a coffee ...), ridiculous price hikes in the carpark (£1000 a year), deliberately more convoluted way of claiming compensation designed to make you give up.... Forgive me if the romance of the railways passes me by....

 

[amazingtrade]

I don't live near the One network so I never have to get their trains, but I am very glad Virgin and First run the services near me. First are not great and Virgin have their problems but at least they have invested heavily and have increased the services by 100%.

You only need to pay a visit to railchat.co.uk to see all the angry passangers who travel with One, they have dubbed it Gone and None. Hopefully they will loose their licence soon, although national rail seem to pefer tenders who cut costs for them regardless of the level of service they provide.

Virgin for example offers great service, new vehicles, good maintence but it costs the tax payer money so they are loosing their XC franchise.

 

[I-S]

First seem rather hit and miss... First GW aren't too popular it seems, and in southampton their bus service was wittily nicknamed "Worst Southampton". I found that walking the 3 miles into the city centre was quicker and far more reliable.

 

[Uncle Ants]

you will find me legging down exactly the platform in that picture every evening on my way home from London!
whatever the locos, that line has gone completely down the drain since One took over the franchise. Crap service, no apparent maintenance on the rolling stock, obscene prices in the buffet (£1 for a 40p packet of peanuts, £1.65 for a coffee ...), ridiculous price hikes in the carpark (£1000 a year), deliberately more convoluted way of claiming compensation designed to make you give up.... Forgive me if the romance of the railways passes me by....

Midland Mainline aren't bad. £12 returns to London from Nottingham, so long as you know when you are going and the coffee is free (if undrinkable).

 

[Phill77]

Midland Mainline aren't bad. £12 returns to London from Nottingham, so long as you know when you are going and the coffee is free (if undrinkable).

But they have just scrapped Saver tickets before 9.30 am, so my return from Wellingborough to Nottingham now costs over 22 quid. With £4.50 parking on top, its £10 a time cheaper to drive, and usually quicker.

 

[Uncle Ants]

But they have just scrapped Saver tickets before 9.30 am, so my return from Wellingborough to Nottingham now costs over 22 quid. With £4.50 parking on top, its £10 a time cheaper to drive, and usually quicker.

Hmm. That's not good. Seems they give with one hand and take with the other.

 

[Cloth-Ears]

I like trains. I don't know much about them but I find them interesting. I've seen railway juctions and sidings from up top buildings and I think it would be great to have a flat overlooking such a scene. Far enough away from the noise but close enough to look down on a sort of a toy railway. I'd listen to music and watch the world go by on the tracks. It is fascinating to see different train designs around the world. The Dutch system is amazing in its scope. Eurostar is great, as is the French TGV. Big American trains are another contrast. I love the little steam railways in north Wales. I wish for a light rail and tram system in my own town but we'll probably never get it. Trainspotting is plain silly but I don't criticise anyone for being fascinated by these big toys. Actually, my favourite trains are rollercoasters !

 

[amazingtrade]

Been on a Eurostrar and I got so excited when they anounced the maximum speed of the journey would be 186mph and the average speed was somthing stupid like 170mph.

Even our state of the art pendolinos can only manage an 85mph average speed over a two hour jounrey.

 

[domfjbrown]

Its a real shame that APT was not a sucess, but it was rushed and not finished properly,like everything any UK government does

Actually, the APT had been in development since the early 1960s. By the time the technology was almost finalised, we got the wonder of the Conservative Government under Thatcher (1979). We all know how much SHE likes public transport don't we? So is it any wander that BR had the rug swept from under them just as they were on the verge of finishing the APT properly?

Mind you, the APT wouldn't have made much difference here in the South West - the lines aren't electrified for one thing, and an IC125 really slugs between Newton Abbot and Plymouth due to the line having more curves than straights

I think we just need to admit that the French and Germans are better at building than trains than us Oh and the Italians!

Rubbish! The French and Germans didn't have to run trains on 1840s track - try running a TGV on our tracks and see how far you get. Also, the Italians had most of their tilting train development done by us.

All I have to say about the drunken hack thing on the big APT launch date is this - big mistake. Oh, and it was really clever to stop mid-route to drop Isla Sinclair off. Who? Yeah, exactly.

As for the pictures - BOTH versions of the APT are looking pretty sad now - especially the testbed prototype (APT-E). IIRC that one used gas turbines for its power source, so would have been a contender down here in the South West. The APT-P is in far better nick, but still sorry looking. Oh - and I still can't figure out where the passenger doors on it are!

AFAIC the IC125 is still the best train for comfort - Voyagers have too-stiff a ride and are too noisy in-carriage. Only used a Pendalino once (Lime Street -> Stafford) but it seemed OK. Still noisy and cramped with no luggage space though. Considering the IC125 is a 1973 design, I think it holds up remarkably well - although the engines are woefully underpowered. Put an EWS engine on both ends instead, and the pullaway from a station might be a tad faster...

 

[amazingtrade]

Thats virgin did last week when there was a shortage of voyager, they spotted hired some EWS Class 90 (or maybe 91s?) with MK2 coaches from 1971.

Them MK2 coaches are like being on a roller coaster they are so jerky, MK3s are so much nicer. Never been on a MK4 because they mainly run with 91s on the East Coast line.

On the west coast nothing can beat a Pendolino because of the curves, HSTs are to slow to get up to speed so every time they go round a bend it reduces the speed and takes ages to get it back up. Pendos can accelerate much faster and can go much quicker round the bends.

Apparantly somebody was sacked at Virgin for making the decision for the Voyagers to have 4 cars

 

[bogbloke]

Is that the APT? I know one still stands in Crewe so I am asuming that is it

It seems backward that train was a failure yet the 390 Pendolino is based on much of it which is a complete sucess in my opinion.

I think that this APT is housed at York's National Railway Museum judging by the photo

 

[Legzr1]

Thats virgin did last week when there was a shortage of voyager, they spotted hired some EWS Class 90 (or maybe 91s?) with MK2 coaches from 1971.

Apparantly somebody was sacked at Virgin for making the decision for the Voyagers to have 4 cars

They were more than likely 90's.
91's are the loco's (power & d.v.t) for IC225 sets and EWS own none.
There is a chance they could have been 92's but these are few & far between used mainly for the channel tunnel freight crossings.

I'd be suprized if someone was sacked for that oversight as there was a lengthy procedure before the sets were ordered.
Also,they are available in 5 car sets and,of course can be coupled into 8, 9 and 10 car sets.
Engine/mechanics wise they are quite reliable - however,they do have lots of niggling problems with electronics.

 

[amazingtrade]

Yep I think it must have been a 90, it would have been pointless sticking a 91 with MK2 carriages anyway as the maximum speed MK2s can go is 100mph, I think 91s are supposed to be used only with MK4s (which were designed with the intention of adding a tilt facility).

The 5 car sets are the super voyagers though which tilt and seem to have more legroom, I think most the electrical problems have been sorted the main problem I have with now is the overhead rack tends to rattle like mad at speeds.

 

[Davewhit]

Train Spotting like "Subs" are for wimps, much more fun driving them

Both the steam and the yellow electric train will carry two adults and three kids
got the use of a field with over a mile of track great fun :MILD:

 

[domfjbrown]

...MK2 coaches from 1971.

Them MK2 coaches are like being on a roller coaster they are so jerky, MK3s are so much nicer...

You should tell my housemate that - he swears by the Mk2, and I swear AT them - especially the crappy ones that have high-winged seats and the awful oscillating lights problems...

Apparantly somebody was sacked at Virgin for making the decision for the Voyagers to have 4 cars

Good; he must have cost them a fortune in complaint payouts. Our trip to Birmingham was a disasater on Friday - all 8 of our group had booked seats, and none of the booking reservation displays were working. Mind you, that was irrelevant, since there was barely standing room. It was so overcrowded they had to stop at Taunton and the announcement "This train will not leave until some of you get off" went out. Great. I wasn't going to move though - since it wasn't mine or the person in my seat's fault, Virgin could sort out the mess...