Do cables make a difference ?

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Paul Ranson said:
I didn't 'selectively quote'. Tony makes no reference to the technical specifications of his cables in his web site, but here he specifically said that they were all the same. Yet he claims they sound different, and they are priced differently. A data point is a data point.


Paul
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Hardly a substantial claim is it, i think the more prominent point was saying to ask the customers, i assume you read that part?
 
Paul we make more than 3 cables, I said that 3 of our cables measure the same, my next statement was to 'ask our users' if them sound the same.
You can interpert that in any way you wish.
 
Where do it state that LRC claims are used to force an issue.
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Three categories of people,

1. 'Sceptics', cables that have the same installed frequency response will sound the same. Flat frequency response is demonstrably available with cheap off the self cables.
2. 'Believers', cables that have the same frequency response will sound different. Some believers offer bullshit pseudo science, others are content just to use flowery language. WM is in the latter category, AFAICT.
3. 'Confused', SM is in this category. He seems to think that cables that sound different may have different frequency responses but that 'flat' isn't any good, and the effect of the cable cannot be replicated by matching the frequency response with the addition of capacitors to a 'flat' cable or the use of an equaliser.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Paul
 
You can interpert that in any way you wish.
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Well one way is that you believe they sound different, the other is that you believe they sound the same but you're happy to charge your customers more for the same if they're willing to pay.

I hope it's the former, but you're being rather evasive.

Paul
 
WM - I answered you earlier when I pointed out that I didnt make the claim you said I did and therefore have no need to defend it. Please see above.

Paul R - your response is inspired. My hat is off to you.
 
I would suggest then Paul, that YOU are suggesting/incinuating that All people that have purchased a cable and feel its sounds different from the one they use are deluding themselves and are experiancing physco acoustic tendenices.
Thats a lot of people, and you are treading the fine line of 'Telling people' of what they are/are not hearing.
I make no such statements, just a trail period for the potential client to assertain for themselves (with out co-ursion) that they are happy/not happy with the possible benefits/non benefits of the products.
I make no technical claims for why a product could or could not do.
No evaision is evident, just purely the customers ears are the deciding factor nothing more.
 
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Paul R - I think WM is a well meaning sort of a creature - however he doesnt always back up his assertions and recomendations except with flowery language and a lot of confidence - some of what he says and does has a lot of value regarding mods but I am very dubious about the cables. One thing I am sure of however is that wadia has poetry in his soul.

Wm - its a large group of audiophiles - possibly 0.001% of the world, not a large group in total. Thats not an awful lot and one scientific is worth a million audiophiles. I am sure you beleive in what you are selling as your comments attest - and you must have a big set of brass balls for charging those prices! Whats the markup on the cable business? ;)
 
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I've said this more than a few times, I'm happy to admit I cannot give a fully reasoned or Logical explaination for some of the effects our products have.
Nor would I attempt too. Thats not a cop out, those that know me, understand my desire for understanding & knowledge.
Its a bigger picture here than a hifi forum.
No just music in the soul :)
 
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brizonbiovizier said:
I am sure you beleive in what you are selling as your comments attest - and you must have a big set of brass balls for charging those prices! Whats the markup on the cable business? ;)
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bbv,

You'd get one hell of a shock if you knew how much time and effort WM has put into designing refining and testing his cables. He told me once and it was mind boggling.

I doubt that many of the others in the market place put as much time into R&D as he does, in fact Im pretty confident WM is a one-off!

I think you have to factor in this R&D and all round leg work with WMs cables. Its not just the ingredients, you are paying for the master baker! (no pun intended!)

You cant say the same thing of a company buying a 100m reel from China and soldering plugs and putting a logo on the sleeve.
 
I would suggest then Paul, that YOU are suggesting/incinuating that All people that have purchased a cable and feel its sounds different from the one they use are deluding themselves and are experiancing physco acoustic tendenices.
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I've no idea. I've never tried one of your cables. It's striking that you're not prepared to say that your customers are not experiencing their psycho-acoustic tendencies.

From a personal pov I find your products ludicrously expensive. I'm going to be trying some of Zanash's silver stuff with an open mind. I'll let you all know what I find.

Paul
 
Paul Ranson said:
3. 'Confused', SM is in this category. He seems to think that cables that sound different may have different frequency responses but that 'flat' isn't any good, and the effect of the cable cannot be replicated by matching the frequency response with the addition of capacitors to a 'flat' cable or the use of an equaliser.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Paul
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Paul,

you are of course wrong. I have long stated that cables are tone controls and that it's the fault of companies like Linn & Naim that, with boxes bereft of the basics, a cable industry grew up to provide people with the compensation previously provided by decent electronics.

I am also interested in the alledged distortion found in cables. I am a listener, not an engineer, so any help here would be useful, HFC recently ran an article discussing distortion and cables, the link I posted to AES purportedly does the same. What's the conclusion?

I personally believe cables can make a difference in systems. I don't profess to know why but I'm fairly convinced it is not through wishful thinking as I have experienced large differences in blind conditions.

It was a pleasure to meet you at the weekend Paul.
 
Yes I am prepared to accept that statement however a cable is still just a cable and I dont think even R&D can account for QUITE that much markup on materials. As I said I accept WM is the real deal - the cable companies are not. If his top cable cost £50/m my respect would be limitless! Perhaps WM add something about his slant on cables and the effort and R&D he has involved to offset the comments about the mindless repackagers?
 
a bit of a sneaky comment this, but dont you just repackage utilities and pass them off to companies?

isn't this more akin to taking money for no real effort?

;)
 
I have long stated that cables are tone controls and that it's the fault of companies like Linn & Naim that, with boxes bereft of the basics, a cable industry grew up to provide people with the compensation previously provided by decent electronics.
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I think this is wrong. Naim, for example, have always provided interconnects and specified speaker cables. Naim users still don't get their tone controls...

Anyway the point remains that if cables are tone controls then the mechanism is well understood and little R&D is required. If something else is going on then it's not understood, and hasn't shown up in listening tests (yet...) or in mainstream theory.

I am also interested in the alledged distortion found in cables.
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Me too.

It was a pleasure to meet you at the weekend Paul.
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Likewise. I'm keen to hear that pirate radio transmitter masquerading as an amp...

Paul
 
Hi,

Heavy snipping....

Paul Ranson said:
Three categories of people,

1. 'Sceptics'
2. 'Believers'
3. 'Confused'

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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In this world there are only two kinds of people, those who get it and those who don't. If the meaning of this is not immediatly obvious, count yourself among the latter.

Robert Anthony Wilson

So, you are wrong. All three that you list actually fall under "latter".

Ciao T
 
OK. Category 4,

'Head up arse really getting it'

I had you in '2' with the combination of mysticism and pseudo-science you tend to spout, but have it your own way...

Paul
 
michaelab said:
No. Why would I want to give away something that has monetary value? That wouldn't be very financially astute at all.

Michael.
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Michael - how about a demonstration of faith (or lack of :) ) and sell it rather than give it away? Then install something less specialist (or do the latter first for the purpose of comparison). There are various super cheap options which also look ok.
 
In this world there are only two kinds of people, those who get it and those who don't. If the meaning of this is not immediatly obvious, count yourself among the latter.
Click to expand...

TBH when you start to quote that philosopher beloved of drug addled students up and down the land you know you're on a sticky wicket.
 
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