Do cables make a difference ?

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brizonbiovizier said:
But that isnt what cable manufacturers claim. They claim two cables with identical or near identical lcr can sound very different and that more expensive cables will be better for the same lcr.
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Would you be so kind as to point me to the advert you refer to or possibly scan it in and post it?
 
Different lcr can be engineered at near negligible cost. certainly no justification for £1k/m cables. Cable manufacturers claim all sorts of things - like skin effect. Which is utter nonsense. I beleive fukuwara originated that particular claim.
 
Again, would you mind pointing me to the specific claims you are lambasting?

Whilst you are at it, could you tell me where I can find these LCR figures and how I go about copying them?

thanks in advance.
 
Take a sample of high end cables and base cables and see which ones match - easy enough. Bet you cant tell the difference in tests. look at any cable advert or their website and see the claims that are made. Pick nordost for example. I have already mentioend skin effect and a reference to fukuwara cables who originated the idea. Please pay attention M ;)
 
merlin said:
Why would you want to keep something of depreciating value when it offers no benefits? Why not sell it - that would be the sensible thing to do. Then invest the money more wisely.
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I'd have to substitute the Ocos with something. The profit I could make in selling the Ocos (in the unlikely event that anyone even wanted to buy it) and substituting it with something cheaper is so small that it's just not worth the hassle.

btw, thanks to brizonbiovizier for carrying the torch of sense in this debate and saying what I would like to have said only more eloquently than I could have managed :)

Michael.
 
Michael,

how much ocos have you got? I might well be interested and I'll send you some freebie stuff to replace it with. I'll give you a fair price for the Ocos and won't charge for the freebie.

can't say fairer than that!
 
brizonbiovizier said:
Take a sample of high end cables and base cables and see which ones match - easy enough.
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Have you done that then? can you post the results for us?

I presume you have. Oh and any luck tracking down those adverts and the wordings? I'm sure you can find them somewhere. You seem only too keen to quote them on the forum.
 
SM - no study has EVER shown the presence of these scientifically unsupported cable properties. The onus is on you. I have already illustrated one outlandish claim I fail to understand how you have missed it.
 
No you miss the point. You have claimed that you can copy the LCR's of these cables easily and cheaply. You have claimed that the cable manufacturers advertise that cables exhibiting the same LCR's sound different.

The onus is on you to substantiate these hitherto unsupported claims.
 
Stereo Mic said:
how much ocos have you got?
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An approximately 3.5m pair (3.5m each side). However, I'm really not interested in changing it just to prove a point or to make myself a couple of quid.
 
Nope I didnt say I could do it. Anyone with a selection of cables can do it. It should be easy enough to do with a slection of different cheap cables on reels to match it with a high end cable.

Manufacturers claim effects other than lcr are important. As evidenced by skin effect and all the other absurd claims you can find on any of their websites. The onus is on you to support these claims if you beleive them as they are currently outside of scientically accepted knowledge.
 
Nick, can you show 3 instances where manufactures make specific claims that LCR has a definate and audiable effect on the sound.
FWIW I agree that the Skin effect reason touted is pure bull.
 
michaelab said:
An approximately 3.5m pair (3.5m each side). However, I'm really not interested in changing it just to prove a point or to make myself a couple of quid.
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Michael, I'll exchange it for a new mobile phone and some freebie cable if you are interested? I think you would be mad to turn it down. Mad or mildly concerned;-)
 
So cable manufacturers alledgedly make wild and sweeping claims and can't back them up.

You make wild and sweeping claims and cannot back them up either. Ever heard of glass houses?
 
I dont make any sweeping and wild statements except that cable manufacturers make sweeping and wild staements.

WM - manufacturers do not need to claim lcr affects cable performance in the interconnection of two parts. It is textbook engineering principles - I refer you to horowitz and hill - a first year EE book. Of most critical applicability is cable capacitive loading of an MC pickup cartridge! However for normal cables connecting normal equipment variation in lcr should have minimal and probably inaudible effect. Earthing is another matter. Cable manufacturers make claims too numerous to mention. Go to any cable manufacturer website and look in the section thats says "why you should pay £5k for our cable instead of £5" - it contains all the BS about cables being more than their lcr you could ever hope to read - as ANY reason beyond lcr is a reason of the type I have indicated. Something Sm seems to have trouble comprehending. If you can demonstrate otherwise to me WM then I will buy you a big pie. Apple or meat filling the choice is yours!
 
brizonbiovizier said:
I dont make any sweeping and wild statements except that cable manufacturers make sweeping and wild staements.
!
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Again, could you indulge me and back that up with some examples for our entertainment? Particularly with regards to the identical LCR you mentioned?


Michael - I've got about 5 mobile phones, don't need another but thanks for the offer.
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Surprisingly difficult to get you to show the courage of your convictions Michael! Even when offered money for "old rope" it proves impossible to prise your audiophool cables from your grasp.

I find that interesting.
 
Nick,

H & H is a shelf mount component here LOL!!!!
Don't turn it on its head, I asked you to clarify your statement, so you asked me a question in return?

Quote Nick
"Manufacturers claim effects other than lcr are important. As evidenced by skin effect and all the other absurd claims you can find on any of their websites."

I stated I feel the Skin effect is B/S, now show me 3 manufacturers that catogorlically state the LRC has an over riding factor in the final sound.??

3 of our cables has Identical LRC measurements.
Do they sound the same, best ask the users?
 
Surprisingly difficult to get you to show the courage of your convictions
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A fair price for a used 3.5m pair of Ocos is about £100. You offered me "a mobile phone" (which I have no need for) and some bell wire.
 
A three meter pair recently went for £60 so that's a bit of a jump. I can't understand the reluctance.

I am offering you money/goods plus suitable replacements that you claim are every bit as good. How can you possibly lose?
 
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