Fake degrees - This *legal* company makes me feel sick

It hardly matters these days, since everyone gets a degree - even people who can't spell 'cheats' ;)

I'm so old that I even managed to fail an O level...

Ed. (who thinks that the whole system is a sick joke.)
 
hey, i failed one of them as well... to be honest a degree is pretty worthless today unless it's a first and even then i'd take someone with experience over someone with a degree. usually you find raw graduates have this conviction they know everything which is just too much hard work to deal with. give me a grizzled veteran who can do the job in his sleep, won't spend hours mentally masturbating over the newest way of doing something (even if it isn;t compatible with the rest of the project) and who won't blow a gasket if things go tits up.
of course give a newbie a chance and a foot in the door if that's all the job requires but if an otherwise good candidate has a lower degree or none at all then still get them in for an interview - or at least talk to them on the phone.

edited to add: surely if someone is intelligent enough to get someone else to do the work for them then they deserve the degree anyway. plus it's closer to how the real world works. :D
cheers


julian
 
julian2002 said:
surely if someone is intelligent enough to get someone else to do the work for them then they deserve the degree anyway. plus it's closer to how the real world works. :D
cheers
Click to expand...

Very True! :D
 
Indeed the value of a degree has plummeted in the last few years as the government pushes more and more people through the system, and more and more institutions award degrees. You can now get a grant such as it is to get a degree from Rochdale College ffs.
Only degrees from major institutions carry weight as far as I can see, I cringe when I see people applying for jobs with degrees from some of the old institutes of adult education and polytechnics, as they often have very poor basic skills, and are incapable of thinking for themselves as you would expect a graduate to.
There should be more vocational training, we need chippies, sparkies, plumbers, plasterers and decorators, they can earn good money providing a service we need. Not more green shield graduates please.

And don't start me on GCSE's and 'A' levels. If anything is wrong with this countrys education system it is how easy it is to get a C in most subjects. You guys who failed one wouldn't now I can assure you
 
But these days you cannot get on the ladder with a degree, its not like the old days any more. Both my parents had jobs which are now graduate only jobs, neither of them have a degree although my dad does have some HE education.

I just think its very wrong when people have worked hard that rich people can just pay for to have it done for them, the whole point of a degree it is your work, it shows you can work on your own back and do intensive research etc.

The degree classification doesn't seem that important either, most employers seem to want personal attributes over a piece of paper, but you need that piece of paper to get the interview. A 2:1 should be good enough for anybody, although in many instances you can get really good jobs with a 2:2 or even 3rd.
 
lordsummit said:
Indeed the value of a degree has plummeted in the last few years as the government pushes more and more people through the system, and more and more institutions award degrees. You can now get a grant such as it is to get a degree from Rochdale College ffs.
Only degrees from major institutions carry weight as far as I can see, I cringe when I see people applying for jobs with degrees from some of the old institutes of adult education and polytechnics, as they often have very poor basic skills, and are incapable of thinking for themselves as you would expect a graduate to.
There should be more vocational training, we need chippies, sparkies, plumbers, plasterers and decorators, they can earn good money providing a service we need. Not more green shield graduates please.

And don't start me on GCSE's and 'A' levels. If anything is wrong with this countrys education system it is how easy it is to get a C in most subjects. You guys who failed one wouldn't now I can assure you
Click to expand...


This is not neccessary true, you can only really answer this question unless you have taken these exams recently. My dad didn't understand a word of my sisters A level maths questions yet he passed his in the early 70's.

I can assure the students are putting as much work in today as they did in the past. Yes grades are increasing, but there are many reasons for this, teaching is improving and access to information is much greater today.

Todays GCSEs are very different and if they are that easy how come the pass rate at my school (5* A-C) was only 10%?

Yes I am aware there is a basic skills problem today, but this goes back to lots policy changes in the primary education sector which mean't many people of my generation suffered weak primary teaching. This is somthing which I have been told has improved a lot since, but I guess we will have to wait another 10 years to find out.
 
As a guide to how standards have fallen, can I cite another Rochdale eductional emporium, namely Balderstone School (or Balderstone Technology College as it is known these days!).

The class of '74 had a grand total of 10 kids out of a year of 440 pass 5 or more O levels. That's 0.023%. Last year, 46% were awarded 5 or more GCSEs.

BTW, of those 10 kids, only one passed all 8 O levels (the maximum taken). The second best result were 2 kids who got 6, failing 2.

Now, ask yourself, when you meet a 16 year old, do you think 'crikey, he's bright', or have standards slipped somewhat?

Ede. (on one of my hobby horses!)
 
There could be many reasons for this, my mum got 6 O levels and she was only slightly above average at school, there were lots that got higher than her, he school wasn't exactly a posh school either, they used to through chairs at the teachers, this was in the 70's. She left in 1973 I think.
 
Some 4 years ago, John Clare (in the Sunday Telegraph) answered this question in his column (I added the bold!):

<<Q - I'm taking my maths A-level exams next month. When I get the results in August, can I look forward to another rash of stories about grade inflation and declining standards?
A - Probably. Maths is the subject in which grade inflation can be most accurately measured. Coventry University, for example, has set the same 50 multiple-choice questions to first-year students since 1991. The results suggest a "dilution" of one A-level grade every two years. In other words, those who will be awarded an A this summer would have warranted an E in 1993. Similarly, York has set the same multiple-choice tests to first-year physics students since 1979. Since 1986, the average mark out of 50 has declined from 38 to 27. Yet, over the same period, the proportion of A-level candidates awarded top grades has steadily increased>>

Another 4 years (2 grades :D ) have passed....

Details of the Coventry Uni study here:

http://www.engc.org.uk/easyfind/dir...on=measuring+te+mathematics+problem&x=12&y=10

As someone whos hires on a regular basis (in engineering), I find the educational standards (basic maths & english) that 'degree level' candidates possess to be... disappointing...but then one gets used to it..
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If that was true A level maths would be 1+1 by now, seriously I suggest anybody with doubts have a look at a modern A level paper and compare it one from the 1970's or somthing.
 
<<A level maths would be 1+1 >>

(IMHO) that's about the state of things...

I am scared for the future (really).

<<The degree classification doesn't seem that important either, most employers seem to want personal attributes over a piece of paper>>

I wonder why??!! :D
 
robs said:
<<A level maths would be 1+1 >>

(IMHO) that's about the state of things...

I am scared for the future (really).
Click to expand...

Well you can believe that if you want, but I know for a fact things are different becuase I have been there recently.

So when you'r kids get an A in A levels maths you can laugh in their face and tell them how worthless it is.
 
I can tell you when I was cleaning out the room that is my office at school, I found piles of 20 year old CSE's, They were in many way's similair to the GCSE's that are sat now. Simple focussed questioning, closed questions needing closed answers. There is no doubt in my mind that GCSE is becoming easier and I teach it. A level in my specialist subject is also easier. All the 'technical' stuff that required learning skills has gone, and has been replaced with 'creativity.' The performing standard has fallen from roughly grade 8 to about grade 5.
AT teachers haven't got better, I wouldn't flatter myself. It is politically expedient to make it appear that standards are rising. In real terms people aren't getting cleverer, so how do you make it happen? You lower standards. Simple, bish bash bosh another election promise fulfilled. What shall we do next?

Ed, how come you know so much about Baldey! Are you perchance another Rochdalian?
 
lordsummit said:
I can tell you when I was cleaning out the room that is my office at school, I found piles of 20 year old CSE's, They were in many way's similair to the GCSE's that are sat now. Simple focussed questioning, closed questions needing closed answers. There is no doubt in my mind that GCSE is becoming easier and I teach it. A level in my specialist subject is also easier. All the 'technical' stuff that required learning skills has gone, and has been replaced with 'creativity.' The performing standard has fallen from roughly grade 8 to about grade 5.
AT teachers haven't got better, I wouldn't flatter myself. It is politically expedient to make it appear that standards are rising. In real terms people aren't getting cleverer, so how do you make it happen? You lower standards. Simple, bish bash bosh another election promise fulfilled. What shall we do next?

Ed, how come you know so much about Baldey! Are you perchance another Rochdalian?
Click to expand...

Yes I admit things have got slightly easier, but to to as much extent as people are making out, there is still a huge amount of people failing in the education system, the media only ever mention the grade inflation they never mention the growing amount of faillures.

Also part of the grade increases may becuase people have more access to information.
 
Amazing, read the article - it was published by the Engineering Council, not the Sun. From the link, go to index.asp, then down the page to 'Measuring the Mathematics Problem - the full report'. It is a scientific study....my personal experience tends to suggest it is about right.. :(

You have been there recently, I was there a while ago. If I have my way, my kids will sit International GCSEs...Mr Clare had something to say about them only recently:

<<According to the Department for Education's latest performance tables, 58 per cent of my pupils passed at least five GCSEs at grades A* to C. In fact, 87 per cent did. The reason for the discrepancy - highly damaging to my school - is that 40 pupils took International GCSEs, which foreign universities prefer because they're more academically rigorous than the domestic variety. Yet the department refuses to recognise them. Given the bizarre qualifications it does recognise, can you explain why?

I think you have answered the question. International GCSEs are more academically rigorous because they eschew coursework and rely on externally marked exams. If schools were not penalised for using them, more would offer them. Academically selective universities would then favour applicants who had taken them, which would effectively (and deservedly) sabotage the domestic GCSE.>>
 
Yes I admit things have got slightly easier, but to to as much extent as people are making out, there is still a huge amount of people failing in the education system, the media only ever mention the grade inflation they never mention the growing amount of faillures.
Click to expand...

sorry AT the figures don't bear you out. The number of pupils passing using all measures ie 5 A-C, 5 A-G and 1 A-G are increasing. When I was at school 15 years ago, not many people even with good results at 16 went on to do A levels, now lots do, or its bastard offspring the BTEC. The number of people failing these exams are falling too.
There is no statistical basis in the facts you are arguing. Sorry
 
I know more people are passing exams, I am not saying they're not, but that alone dosn't mean their getting easier, a lot of suggestion is that people are more aware these days and don't want to end up being s dustbin man all their lifes so work harder.

The only way to settle this argument is to randomly pick two exams in the same subject one in 1980, one in 2000, then get somebody who did their exam in the subject in 1990.

Even now (BBC website, will find the source) only 30% of 18-19 year olds get A levels, and the government target for 50% of under 30's to go university is also wrong. This includes HNCs, HNDs and similier which are mostly taught in the FE sectore.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top