Fake degrees - This *legal* company makes me feel sick

[amazingtrade]

I'm sure log tables if they are relevent to modern society will be covered in the higher tier exams, I did intermediate, and I can add up without using a calculator.

And Oldham Tech is possibly Oldham College now, which is a community college, offering very limited higher education provision so thats probably not changed since your day.

What people in this argument forget to mention is there are lots of challanging aspects being added to the slyabuses as old ones are taken away, its just some things are deemed relevant any more as we are living in a changing world.

 

[SCIDB]

I went to Ducie High School which was closed down, it is now known as Manchester Academy. I left in 1999.

The school has a bad rep by the looks of it. It is down to 8% A-C grades.

Just a little twist to this, ok suppose exams have got easier, people are doing much more A levels now than they used to, its quite common for people to sit 4 or 5 A levels espeicaly with regards to Oxbridge.

Isn't that because they are easier? Because more people are getting high grades, the top universities are asking for more A levels or having more entrance exams.
People are also doing easier subjects to get good grades.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3560965.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3159649.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3753552.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wear/3626496.stm

My university had to drop Chemestry despite it having a good reputation in the area (22 teaching score, 5 star research - I think). The reason they dropped it is because it was much cheaper to teach media studies than chemestry as the government don't ive the university enough money for these subjects to make it worth while.

This has happened all over the country. It's a big shame. When it happen to my department it was a sad day.

Just another thing which may support the increase in pass rates, the teaching style has changed some what, in the old days you were taught the subject, now you're taught how to pass exams, this is wrong I admit, but it is not the students who are taking these exams fault as you rightly point out.

This true. You teach pupils to who are on the C - D borderline ways of upping their grades.

Every August when people get the grades, it often feels like a stab in the back when they are told how useless they are. Many of these people have worked extremely hard for their grades.

I do agree. This the sad thing about this issue.

I don't think 50% of the population will get degrees, the government don't even want this, what they want is 50% of under 30's to have some sort of HE experience, this includes HNCs, HHDs, and foundation degrees.

It is true they want 50% of school pupils to go into higher education but Universities would like as many people as possible to do there courses. With the falling birth rate, they have looked at a wider customer based. More mature students are getting degrees and this has increased. More overseas students are enrolling. A wider range of courses to attract a wider range of people. It's all about bums on seats.

SCIDB

 

[amazingtrade]

I am aware about the easier subject syndrome but so are employers so doubt its much of a problem apart from the students who let them selves get into that position. The bums on seats thing is a problem, but I understood that the government have frozen funding on undergraduate degrees and are only increasing places on foundation degrees which the government are using to get their stupid 50% target.

I did however go with my mate who wants to this business enterprise masters where you have state of the art access to facilities such as computer aided manufacturing, they have this state of the art thing that you create a model in CAD and the machine makes the pototype for you! Its so good that it can actually make a real product in many cases. He said that the course has 20 places but they only accept 15 because other wise it would be hard to give each student the attention they need, so its not always a case of bums of seats, but certainly in the under graduate sector it is, there are people on my course you should not be there.

 

[Bob McC]

I have it on good authority that Ed needham never used a pencil in his school life. It was all chalk and little black boards. Also he likes to present as younger than he really is. Of course Clive sinclair hadn't invented calculators when he took exams. Ed actually used Napier's bones in his exams.

bob

 

[amazingtrade]

I have it on good authority that Ed needham never used a pencil in his school life. It was all chalk and little black boards. Also he likes to present as younger than he really is. Of course Clive sinclair hadn't invented calculators when he took exams. Ed actually used Napier's bones in his exams.

bob

Clive Sinclair didn't invent the calculator, that was Texas Instruments and Intel.

What Sir Clive did is invent a calculator that was cheap and accessable to the general public, he invented the pocket calculator, the only problem is the Japaneese did it better and more cheaply just one year later

PS Sorry to be pedantic I just like playing you old dears at your own game

 

[michaelab]

To be truth, a lot of jobs don't require a degree. It just that companies just ask for one.

I know a number of people with degrees in postions that didn't require a degree. They got the jobs on personal qualities. A degree can help to develop these but not always.

And many companies who ask for a degree won't necessarily ignore applicants who don't have one provided they have other things, usually good experience. I don't have a degree and it has never been a hinderance to me in either getting a job or being paid well for doing one. I was very lucky with my first job in that the person interviewing me went through almost exactly the same situation as me regarding university and also didn't have a degree so he didn't hold it against me on the one occasion when it mattered most as I didn't have any "professional" experience (as a programmer).

My situation was that I started a degree in Pharmacology when I should really have done Computer Science or similar. I didn't because of some stupid vocational guidance test that told me my future was in "life sciences" and my school teachers went along with that and I was too young/naive to make my own mind up . By the time I realised I was doing the wrong course it was already the 2nd year and too late for me to switch and still get a grant so I quit. Having been a computer geek since the age of 11 I already knew how to write software but I didn't have any piece of paper that said so which made getting my first job as a programmer harder than I thought it would be but I lucked out and since then the fact I didn't get a degree has never mattered.

Michael.

 

[amazingtrade]

And many companies who ask for a degree won't necessarily ignore applicants who don't have one provided they have other things, usually good experience. I don't have a degree and it has never been a hinderance to me in either getting a job or being paid well for doing one. I was very lucky with my first job in that the person interviewing me went through almost exactly the same situation as me regarding university and also didn't have a degree so he didn't hold it against me on the one occasion when it mattered most as I didn't have any "professional" experience (as a programmer).

My situation was that I started a degree in Pharmacology when I should really have done Computer Science or similar. I didn't because of some stupid vocational guidance test that told me my future was in "life sciences" and my school teachers went along with that and I was too young/naive to make my own mind up . By the time I realised I was doing the wrong course it was already the 2nd year and too late for me to switch and still get a grant so I quit. Having been a computer geek since the age of 11 I already knew how to write software but I didn't have any piece of paper that said so which made getting my first job as a programmer harder than I thought it would be but I lucked out and since then the fact I didn't get a degree has never mattered.

Michael.

Back then which was I assume was the 1980's the market was different, I assume you had good A levels which would have been a huge help.

Not having a degree will never effect you now because you have plenty of experience so it dosn't matter, you have already proved you can do the job well so a bit of paper won't matter at all. For those who leave now without a degree will find it harder to get good jobs in the computing industry, its still probably possible but you would have to be extremely good.

A degree is really all about getting the foot in the door and you were lucky you managed to do that without one. Before I went to college/university I was stuck in a rut, being paid less than mimimum wages to build PCs with 32MB RAM that were not fit for purpose as they came with Windows ME which was a horrible operating system that requires at least 64MB.

How much good its done my going to university I can't answer yet, but I know I can do a lot more stuff that I didn't have a clue how to do before, for example server side websites. Microsoft .NET, Java etc.

My aunty dosn't have a degree either and she is a personel manager now, although she does have good A levels.

 

[Ed Needham]

I have it on good authority that Ed needham never used a pencil in his school life. It was all chalk and little black boards. Also he likes to present as younger than he really is. Of course Clive sinclair hadn't invented calculators when he took exams. Ed actually used Napier's bones in his exams.

bob

This is a bit rich, Bob, I may be getting on a bit these days, but you're even older than Steve Jackson!

See you soon,

Ed.

 

[angi73]

well i'd say that even if you havent learnt much, at least youve met new people, made new friends and lapped up student culture. I think I will rememberr this as the best three years of my life. I have ceratinly learnt a lot of things about life that are not covered in my ag business management course

For me it was about getting away from home and taking the first step of independance, im quite self sufficeint as i got lucky enough to get sponsered.

 

[domfjbrown]

Is spelling and grammar part of the exams? If so you may want to consider applying for a bin mans position with your local council.

Err, that's "bin man's", Penance Maybe you should also join the queue??? Just joshing!

Re extra time in exams - most people I know got this (due to being partially sighted) - I even got this in an art exam (came in handy considering I was using biro - I never use conventional media in art!). I reckon I'd have probably got considerably-worse grades than the ones I ended up with if I hadn't (3Cs, 5bs and an A at GCSE, with BCD at A level).

We won't go near my third hons at uni - I blame Reading Uni fair and square for that one - their bums on seats mentality meant I couldn't do the maths portion of the course - which, err, turned out to be something like 80% of the course! Hint - Computer Science/Cybernetics needs a little more than a crappy C at GCSE maths...

Personally, I *do* feel standards in education are waaaaaay down there now. My 1991-acquired GCSEs were probably more dumbed-down than the 1987 originals, but still certainly fairly hard (or so they seemed at the time). I reckon even *I* could get an A* at maths now though - given 10 minutes with a quick revision guide - he he.

I do have one grade I'm VERY proud of though - my D in French. Not one Brown has passed a language (other than English), and I wasn't about to break from tradition... (actually, my French teacher hated me so I didn't bother working, but that's neither here nor there...)

BTW - most of my family have been or are teachers. Two of them have had nervous breakdowns, all three of them hate the paperwork, and all three of them complain they can't teach properly due to said paperwork. One of them (my sister) in my opinion is unfit to look after herself, let alone guide 6-7 y/o kids. Those who can't... teach. (although I'm NOT slurring ALL teachers here - the other two relatives are GOOD teachers, as are most of them!!!)

 

[amazingtrade]

Maths is the reason I didn't do computer science, I got a 240 points offer (CCC) or (AA) but I realised I would be turned off by the maths. In one of my modules I have to design an encoding and compression system for sending data over a network, and my maths is really letting me down in it.

I am so glad I didn't do computer science now, my course still requires maths but not at the same level as Computer Science does. I think I have hopefully being quite clever in finding a niche I am good at that dosn't require too much maths, so I am not too worried about getting a job.

I hope to get a 2:1 but it all depends largely on my final year project disertation which I have only done 2500 words for so far . Though the website is half way done.

 

[domfjbrown]

Yep, you live and learn. I wish I'd done English or Art to be honest - a D at Art A Level let me down (but not bad for a person with a quarter-to-a-sixth of a normal person's eyesight ).

I always keep schtung about my crappy Third Hons degree; it was a joint course with a LOT of techy stuff so that's an excuse, but a Third's still a turd by any other name! I tell you what though, one thing about the joint course I was good at was the joints Cough cough

 

[amazingtrade]

Yep, you live and learn. I wish I'd done English or Art to be honest - a D at Art A Level let me down (but not bad for a person with a quarter-to-a-sixth of a normal person's eyesight ).

I always keep schtung about my crappy Third Hons degree; it was a joint course with a LOT of techy stuff so that's an excuse, but a Third's still a turd by any other name! I tell you what though, one thing about the joint course I was good at was the joints Cough cough

Argh well at least people are not going say you're a vicar in a tuto (aka a Desmond Tutu).

I wouldn't worry to much about your degree, you've got a good job so it can't have done too much harm. I know several people on my course who feel trapped because they hate it but they have come to far to drop out.

 

[domfjbrown]

I know several people on my course who feel trapped because they hate it but they have come to far to drop out.

Aha - the same trap *I* fell into; kinda wished I'd dropped out with Gayle (an Exmouth lass) when she told me you could (back in 1994, you could quit before the second week of the second term of your course, and still get a grant), but I didn't. Come to think of it, I wanted to, err, drop INTO Gayle too, but ahem!

The worst thing about uni for me was this... I did my fair share of work (even though I sucked!), but my housemate Des worked his ASS off - I mean, REALLY worked all hours and, unless he was in a bath or running, was never seen outside his room (unless we dragged him to a club!). He scrapd a third - same as me, and I feel guilty in many respects, simply as he'd worked so hard for a 2:1.

A Tutu would be nice, but I can live without the Desmonds - "Vicar in a tutu" is more my bag now (man, I want "The queen is dead" on Rough Trade CD!!!)

BTW - was up in Manchester this last weekend - changing trains at Picadilly! We'll have to try to arrange a meet up up there at some point and do that tour of the Factory/music scene - would you still be up for that, sometime this summer?

 

[amazingtrade]

Aha - the same trap *I* fell into; kinda wished I'd dropped out with Gayle (an Exmouth lass) when she told me you could (back in 1994, you could quit before the second week of the second term of your course, and still get a grant), but I didn't. Come to think of it, I wanted to, err, drop INTO Gayle too, but ahem!

The worst thing about uni for me was this... I did my fair share of work (even though I sucked!), but my housemate Des worked his ASS off - I mean, REALLY worked all hours and, unless he was in a bath or running, was never seen outside his room (unless we dragged him to a club!). He scrapd a third - same as me, and I feel guilty in many respects, simply as he'd worked so hard for a 2:1.

A Tutu would be nice, but I can live without the Desmonds - "Vicar in a tutu" is more my bag now (man, I want "The queen is dead" on Rough Trade CD!!!)

BTW - was up in Manchester this last weekend - changing trains at Picadilly! We'll have to try to arrange a meet up up there at some point and do that tour of the Factory/music scene - would you still be up for that, sometime this summer?

Yep that will be good, I will have a bit of spare time when I graduate anyway as I doubt I will be able to get a job straight away and even if do I will have the novelty of having no word to at weekends.

 

[lhatkins]

Don't have degree, can't spell, can't do math! still not stopped me becoming a web developer in Local Government, but got there the long and hard way. Personally I'd rather "learn on the job", just suits me better.

 

[domfjbrown]

He he - witness exhibit a: Lhatkins with no degree, doing cool stuff like java.

Witness exhibit b: me, with a degree in comp/cyb, and can't even install a HDD properly without Lhatkins' help (well, I *can*, but I'm chicken!) - and NO java, and barely no javascript, due to boring stuffed shirt security policy (and TOTAL lack of ability!).

So there you have it - experience rules and degrees mean sh*t! (GROSS oversimplification, but valid...)

AT - nice one dude - can you PM me your mobile number again and we'll sort something for after you graduate - a weekend in Manchester (pubs, second hand vinyl, Factory!) sounds like a good plan

 

[lhatkins]

Hi Dom, nice to see you're still alive.

I wouldn't go that far, I'm not an exhibit, its just the way my career path has gone, being in the right place at the right time and going the "very" long way around.

I would not say that Degree's are good or bad, it depends on the individual and how s/he prefers to learn, I prefer "hands on" to classroom.

Though I've been on more courses this year than I ever did at college, Server side javascript, Oracle PL/SQL and 3 product courses, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to remember all this $h1t!?? he he

Dom your not doing so bad mate, the Wet Office isn't a bad place to work from what I can gather, working on the internet is pritty cool, hey and you still earn more than me, get more days off and its a nicer "disabled friendly" building (unlike ours! where's the DDA when you need it).

Anyway you enjoyed Uni, you met a good group of friends there, I know cos I came up and and we had a good few weekends (from what I have vaguly remember ! ).

As for building your own computer, that's just confidence, try with a cheap, "doesn't matter if I break it" one and you just learn from there, that's the way I did it, nothing special.

Don't get down dude, I wasn't saying degree's are worthlesss, just not for me.

He he - witness exhibit a: Lhatkins with no degree, doing cool stuff like java.

Witness exhibit b: me, with a degree in comp/cyb, and can't even install a HDD properly without Lhatkins' help (well, I *can*, but I'm chicken!) - and NO java, and barely no javascript, due to boring stuffed shirt security policy (and TOTAL lack of ability!).

So there you have it - experience rules and degrees mean sh*t! (GROSS oversimplification, but valid...)

AT - nice one dude - can you PM me your mobile number again and we'll sort something for after you graduate - a weekend in Manchester (pubs, second hand vinyl, Factory!) sounds like a good plan

 

[domfjbrown]

No worries dude - I don't regret going to uni (though I *do* regret not reading the SDA literature and discovering that lab time ISN'T lectures - I'd never have needed a loan then! D'oh! and GRRRR!

My job's OK - just a bit dull... Can't moan all the time though eh!?

BTW - the cheap PC = mum and dad's - REALLY have to fix that one! Oooops...