Financing Zerogain

It's very hard to predict the revenue, particularly with the adsense adverts were it's based on clicks rather than impressions. I'd make a guess if I could, but it varies so much with the subject matter and audience etc, I'd probably be miles off. As was mentioned briefly by amazingtrade, it's very unlikely to come anywhere close to the total cost of running the forum - by their nature they take up a lot of bandwidth and processing power compared to the number of impressions, particularly in comparison to a static page with a few adverts sitting on it, such as those waiting for your parents to find it via a search and line someones pockets.

As I mentioned, I thought the adverts would be people's preference at first - it's entirely possible to have adverts removed for those who donate if thats what people would rather go for. The forum members are organised by a series of usergroups, be it unregistered, registered, moderators etc. It's simply a case of having a separate usergroup for donating members andapplying adverts to one usergroups pages and not another.

The hosting cost will probably be about the same, in the region of £50-60 per month. The additions of extra features such as a system gallery for each user wouldn't affect the cost on a new server as so much bandwidth would be available - a terabyte or two is pretty much standard for dedicated servers nowadays.

The trade section is available for classified adverts, though it's had very little use - primarily fairly regular forum members anyway, rather than traders coming specifically to advertise.

BlueMax's comment about having a forum section for a specific manufacturer is presumably along the same sort of lines as your thinking, many smaller companies may well benefit from having somewhere for them to run a small forum without the need for dealing with the hosting/software etc themselves, though we obviously then run the risk of seeming less impartial - an obvious benefit in it's current state, and not something we want to lose.

It'd be pretty difficult to make a profit as I touched on before, but having one or two people paying for everything isn't really ideal for any length of time either, hence looking for something where the cost can be spread out to a certain extent. As we're not out for profit, we've not got any reason to hide the finances from the members - I expect if we were having donations we'd give an indication of what things are costing and how much has been donated. Likewise we'd give an indication of how successful the adverts were if they were in use.

Once enScape is going again it'll probably be about 50/50, but at the moment ZG is using about 3/4 of the bandwidth - if enScape was active we'd not have been able to move it to the enScape server.

If we go for donations we'll look into what people do/don't want to pay - I expect people will have different ideas about how much they feel the need to contribute, so it may well be a case of as much or as little as you please, rather than asking everyone for a specific amount.

 

just a thought here:
I belong to ffoc (Ford Focus Owners Club) and for £20 a year, you get exclusive car stickers, membership number which entitles you to discounts with a variety of organisations as well as newsletters throughout the year in the form of cdroms.

I guess what i'm insinuating is if you could make a membership 'club' attractive in the form of some kind of strictly exclusive discounts (after all, we all suffer from upgraditis) as well as some kind of 'name and shame' esque signature or avatar banner you may find some takers

Thats saying one thing, the other thing would be to find some members of the trade who would be prepared to take on giving discounts....

Some rambles there anyway

 

If you charged the members £5-10 per annum, thats 40-80p per month, hardly big stuff for the entertainment value, any left over at year end could be donated to charity.

 

Rory - that's much the same as ClubVR4 of which I'm a member.

It's very interesting to read people's comments and views. I am glad we've had this good a response.

So far it seems as if a lot of people would prefer a donation system, although the poll has adverts ahead by some significant margin.

However, compared to some sites our costs are not huge and could well be covered by donation.

It seems to me that there's a reasonable chance that we could end up pulling in more than is outgoing... at that point I can see several reasonable courses of action:

1) keep any excess for when donations slow down
2) buy one of the random items that does the rounds like the demagic CD, green pen, etc so that people can hear stuff (or not) for themselves
3) donate it to charity

Or something else... any excess like that would be subject to vote by all contributors.

 

Is not to totally unreasonable that the admistrators of this forum do get some kind of finanicial gain from running? I mean its not like we would be talking huge amounts of money.

Although I also like the idea of donating to charity - it might even encourage people to subsribe although if that was avertised there may be one or two legal issues.

 

I have to say I really do hate the idea of a name and shame kind of thing. I also don't think its a good idea to give anything in return for a donation (it becomes a subscription then) as that starts this elitist thing again.

The idea of adverts only for non-registered members I have to say I don't like much either. I would rather donate and have that benefit everyone, not just myself.

Personally I think I could afford about £30 a year as a donation, but I don't work at the moment so others might be willing to pay even more perhaps?

If you have more money than needed, keep it for when donations slow down as I'm sure they will be quick to come now but after a while people will forget or get bored of the forum.

I am still keen on the idea of having a ZeroGian room at a Hi-Fi show so maybe extra money could help finance that.. which may bring even more if done right!

 

Yup all seems a good idea, start off with a donation scheme, this I would imagine would generate a fair amount of cash to begain with, keep some in reserve and then see where we are, love the idea of a ZG room at a show.

 

adverts would get my vote.....secondly a subscription ....lastly donations [you would not be able to rely on them you'd ask for more and it would be the same people coughing up again....I've seen this in other areas of life.

 

philip - show rooms are very expensive... Typically we descend on the room of a "friendly" outfit late in the afternoons.

 

I know, maybe a ZG bar tab, one bitter lemon each and easy on the ice. Still aim high and all that!

 

:lol:

 

A room at a show is a interesting idea, Its been tried before however failed to materialise.I believe Paul Ranson tried to instigate a similar idea on the Dungoen and Dragons forum same result.
A room at Bristol (the cheapest one) is very close to £1700 inc vat, The Roy Bird Heathrow show is around the £600 mark (though attendence is poor, though a better venue and people imho).
So if you are genuinely interested then, quite a few people are going to have to stump up the reddies, and a democratic way of deciding who does what worked out.
Buts thats a digression, perhaps Mark could come up with the 'top 200 visitors.posters' and each blag them for a £5 no big shakes.
Still feel the drive by advert merchants should have a 3 day cooling off period before posting just Tones 2p

 

I like the idea of 'money behind the bar' at trade shows - should there be an excess of funds...

 

Name and shame is a bad idea IMO if you donate great if you don't thats up to you, anonimity is much better why do you need others to know youve sent a few ££'s? Moreover the shamed ones are more likely to stop coming than cough up which is bad for the site, forums need members to stay interesting.

 

agreed

 

Personally, I thihk this is an excellent idea. I don't see why you should appear any less impartial, so long as the members here stick to the rules and the mods don't start censoring stuff which the forum sponsors are unhappy with.

 

The problem I see with show stuff, is one of geography, Bristol and heathrow aree fine for you southerners, but what aboutr the rest, or should we do kt at manchester, and secondly, what would we be showing?

I reckon give to charity, or keep funds or buy some still points (budget dependant) or somesuch and send to each other to try, or keep cahs for slow times, I'm also not averse to admin keeping money, but I understand you guys want to keep it non profit.

 

A ZG larded with gallerys, manufacturer forums, advertising etc etc would simply become yet another hifi forum to avoid as far as I'm concerned.
You would strip this place of it's soul, and I suspect, a few other members. This is hardly the end of the world - but quite sad for me at any rate.

 

I am not comfortable with the idea of manufacturer's forums, particularly given my position working with the industry.

Discussion of excess funds is getting way ahead though. If it happens, we'll deal with it at the time. As it is now, we're looking at how to bring some in to go toward covering the costs, nothing more.

 

funds

Would there be any interest in a 'virtual' bring and buy sale ?

CD's would be the obvious thing; low resale value and cheap to post.
Stick up a list of things you would be happy to be rid of, proceeds of sale to ZG.
Seller 'donates' CD and postage and gets shelf space and warm glow, buyer donates cash to ZG and gets cheap music.
Maybe agree a flat rate in advance so as not to impinge on the trade of those who would rather sell through the classifieds.

Good idea or logistical non-starter ?