Fully ballanced valve preamps

They always will Thorsten. It's subjective as you say. Their opinion is of little interest to me - the reviews are only there for the manufacturers' benefit.

You are still comparing £1500 with £400. It's not about what it costs to make but about what it costs to buy. That's all that is of importance to an end user.

 

Hi,

Bent Audio is an OEM Customer of S&B who gets his own specification. They principle winding geometry is the same but some materials used etc. vary between Bent Audio Spec Transformers and others.

Read Sarjans review (6moons.com) of the Audio Zone Passive Preamp compared to MF Audio to get an idea what sort of differences apply in sonic terms.

In electrical terms the main differences are between the different "Mark's", there was the original MK I (very rare), the MK II which changed the winding system substantially for better measurements sadly loosing a little bit of sound quality in the process, the MK 2.5 which clawed back some of the losses and finally the current MK III whcih uses a completely new and unusal methode of winding transformers JB cam up with.

As John Chapman said, there are audible differences between the "Mark's", but not large enough to warrant changing transformers. The reviews in HiFi World (David Price) and HiFi News (Andrew Harrison) of the Music First Passive Pre used MK II versions of the TX-102....

Depends. I had originally a hand in getting Sowter to make the first TVC's (this was a very sad story, but anyway). We (as in associates of mine and myself) found the original Sowter TVC to be significantly better in several key performance areas, over resistive attenuators of varying types, but attended with a slight softening at the audio band extremes, somewhat source dependent.

When I got to meet and know Jonathan Billington I originally merely commisioned him to make me a trial set of Moving Coil Stepups and also of Transformer volume controls, derived from the TX-101 Line transformer, which had mightly impressed me and which I felt would cure the problems experienced with the Sowter Transformers.

In fact, my original sets where swiped by a very famous and contentious manufatcurer who is a major OEM customer of S&B, by the time my own stuff arrived JB had already asked if I really minded if he started making both the MC Stepup (now the TX-103) and TVC (now TX-102) commercially, which I did not (of course).

Based on experiences among my associates quite a few TX-102's where sold to DIY'ers (in preference to Sowter's early versions despite the much higher cost of the TX-102) in the UK and John Chapman (who I know somewhat from the Days of Sound Practices) also picked up on these.

The rest I guess is history.

You can find a number of comparison tests between Sowter and S&B TVC's, in addition occasionally to others. In addition S&B undertook a quite substantial program of development on from the origianl TX-102 which has lead to the current 102 MK III. In that process (in which I had some small input) all sorts of angles where evaluated. The current MK III is probably about as good as S&B can manage without a major breakthrough in winding or core technology.

As the BBC used to say, "other options exist".

Ciao T

 

The vibe and pulse definately adds something to the sound - just as the groove does. Though to be fair I havent heard the new update. I doubt much has changed however. I prefer even the AM TVC.

Have you heard the con 4.0 T?

I think the character added by the vibe is countering the tendencies of SMs turntable.

TVCs do need about an hour to come on song. I really must listen to the megs but my money is on my keeping my active pmcs

 

I believe the words you are looking for are authenticity and believability. I beleive it is preferable to add something than to lose part of the original.

You might find it's honesty and directness somewhat in your face in association with the Bryston/PMC combination. You will most likely prefer something that takes the edge off the recording just a tiny amount, ever so slightly softening dynamics and drive. A passive should indeed fit the bill IME.

Should you get more natural sounding loudspeakers though, you might well find your preamp preferences change - such are the vaguaries of our delightful hobby.

 

Actually I prefer sins of omission to addition.

Both groove and vibe add something to the music that is not there originally. I lived with the groove for 2 years so I am very familiar with it. This issue has apparently been addressed in the groove plus but I have yet to hear it. The issue was more severe for the vibe with pulse. These issues may have been addressed with the new lithos update - I wil keep an open mind.

I have heard both units completely outside of my system and my observations still stood.

Feel free to bring them both over and proove me wrong. The gauntlet is thrown down.

I would never soften dynamics or drive . Nice try though! I found the tvc improved those aspects. With a more incisive and accurate deck you might find the flaws of the TEAD revealed.

 

Thanks for the tips - I'll bear them in mind.

 

Shall I pencil you in?

 

Am I the only one who thought about a pencilling-in book after reading this? .

 

I fear SM wont be forthcoming in testing his assertions in public.

 

I'd love to drop by and let you hear some decent kit BBV, but sadly it's either that or having my teeth pulled by a drunken Nigerian dental trainee with pungent armpits and the latter wins hands down from my personal enjoyment perspective.

 

Mere words of bluster Sm - what matters is not what you say but what you do - in this case whether you step up to the mark or not.

Perhaps I can come to you and hear those mighty jbls? If you open my eyes I will be the first to admit so you have your chance. If you dont take it then it begs some questions .

 

Good try BBV but I only tend to invite friends and then the only things we swap are records, the only purpose of the getting together -good music and good company.

I'm sure you really wouldn't like my system anyway and equally positive that I wouldn't like your company.

 

More bluster to avoid stepping up.

I agree - I tend to get on only with open minded and easy going people that dont patronise or look down on others. The company of a person with these requirements you would doubtless find odious. I suspect the company of said Nigerian would be more to your taste - like seeks like!

For the record I like jbls

 

Thanks for this fantastic overview - not all of us here are that familiar with TVC.

What I am wondering about is where the other manufacturers of similar devices fit in - especially the European ones? I got a very serious recommendation for Tribute Audio autoformers, Dutch ones. Apparently very expensive, difficult to get, but worth of long, long waiting.

 

Maybe you would become friends if you met in person for good music. Merlin I think you seem a bit of a plonker on the forums a lot of the time (sorry) but in person you seem very nice. The same applies for a lot of us I think.

I for one would also love to hear those JBL's of yours, so if you and BBV ever decide to bury the hatchett please don't forget to invite me along!

 

Indeed - I would be willing to bury the hatchett. I keep an open mind about everything. But sadly I dont think SM will agree.

 

Tenson,

We all come across as plonkers to some of the people some of the time and some come across as plonkers to all of the people all of the time.

I am not a nice person - I am an honest person. I can only envisage burying the hatchet with browntrousers in a particularly gruesome fashion. Makes me smile though.

 

Hi,

I also hear good stuff of how Tribute transformers sound and endless moans of how long it takes to get any, plus they are actually in our case "AVC" not "TVC" devices, there are several technical differences, of course the only thing that matters is the result. Oh and of course you have to make own case and all...

Ciao T

 

Thus I proove myself the better man. You should have fewer preconceptions old chap. You beleive yourself to be honest... but sometimes belief is not enough. Doubt is a virtue sometimes.

 

Look here chaps is all this really necessary?

I've asked SM over to my place and we've agreed to do this in the near future. I've also invited BBV when he returns from his impending trip overseas.
So, you are both invited over to listen to some music, eat and drink and have a good time. I'll even sit between you both and pass notes back and forth if it helps break the ice