Headphone amp + headphones

No probs, glad you like em . The foam mod, is I think, reversible (simply stick them back on). Most, if not all people who have done it said they would never go back to having the foamies on once they've performed the mod, but that is certainly up to you. Certainly, my mates foam modded CD1700's were usefully close to my CD3000's given the cost through my rig. Certainly, they are my second favourite phones that I have heard, only trailing behind the CD3000, and beat out the Senn HD580, HD650, Beyer DT531, DT880, DT990, DT931 and the lower models Stax to my ears.

And BTW, you have PM.

 

thats interesting- i sold a set of Stax Lambda Basics (predecessor to 2020s) due to lack of use and replaced them with a cheapo 2nd pair of '565 Ovations.The 565s are awful by comparison to the Stax's. much more coloured, forward sounding and yes I'd go along with your 'muddy and slow' adjectives

i had aplay around with some cd1700s when we had some in at work and they did really impress me. i was going to get some, but the 565s turned up for around £50 so i couldn't say no really. the cd1700s sound like a tighter, more responsive Sennheiser HD580.

 

Rory, did you listen to them foam modded? I ask because IMO the foam modded ones sound a LOT better than HD580's to me.

Also, did you know HD580's and HD600's can be foam modded in the same way?

 

hey Paul
no, the cd1700s were straight out of the packaging...i would haev bought them if i hadn't only bought the hd580s a couple of weeks earlier

 

Paul, two questions for you.

(1) How do you get at the foam pads, exactly? I've just got a pair of CD1700s and I don't want to damage them. Do you have to snap off the entire earpad that's held on by the wire surround? I have pulled at that a bit but I'm afraid of breaking summat... And I reckon it would be hard to rely on the guarantee when they ask me what happened.. "Well I'd heard about the foam mod..." :shame:

(2) I've noticed that the Sony's are not as silent as Grado 325s (which I also have) as there is a slight hiss on the Sony's during silent passages. In your experience, will the foam mod increase this to the point where it becomes much more noticeable? I find the Sony's give a warmer sound than the Grados and I wonder if I'm better off leaving them as they are, so I have a choice of different-sounding 'phones for different types of music?

Cheers.

 

1. The earpads simply pull off I'd imagine. I did do a post on headfi about it, but it seems to have vanished into thin air, however I find it hard to imagine you'd do any damage, as the foamies could be glued back on.

However, if you want, I'll ask my mate exactly what he did when I see him.

2. I doubt its the Sony's making the hiss, it'll be your source. They are extremely sensitive, and revealing, and combined with being a closed design they'll emphasise it. I doubt that the foam mod will dramatically increase the hiss, but I'd be tempted to try and find out what is causing it, as I doubt its the headphones themselves.

 

I had a go at it last night and.... it's done. The first one was a bit tricky as I was probably being a bit too gentle with it, but by the second one I was a true "foam-modder"

It opens up the sound a bit more. Since I'm still running 'em in I'll need to wait a while to see just how good they get.

Thanks for pointing out this mod.

Right again Mr. B.!! I tried the Sony's on my NAD C350 and they are silent when they ought to be. I had been using my OBH21-SE on my main CD-listening set-up, where I was getting some background hiss. Even there I was able to effectively eliminate this by switching to the second output on the OBH. (In fairness to Creek they point out that the impedance varies between the two outputs and that you should try both for the best sound.) I've read your reviews of the Perreaux and that may be in my future...

Now you're two for two on my problems, can you move on to bigger things...? Like getting West Ham back into the Premiership??

BTW, I have to agree with yourself and others that the CD1700s are great value for money, at £74. They have a very dynamic presentation, with plenty of slam. Vocalists really come to the fore as well. I've spent quite a bit of time in the past few days comparing 'em to my Grado 325s and 80s. On balance I like the 325s a bit more, as they give more air around acoustic recordings (probably the open design?), but I'd be hard-pushed to say the difference was worth the additional £201 they cost me! (Including £25 for an extension lead for the Grados that you don't need with the Sonys, thanks to their "real-world" 3.5m lead - kudos for that!) Also, the Sony's screw-on adapter is a simple but sensible way of ensuring a good connection, one that doesn't come apart when you pull out the lead!

Anyhow, rather than worry about Sony v Grado too much I've decided that I have two great headphones (for my tastes at least) and I'll enjoy 'em both. (And the 80s aren't half-bad either. Oh, and the Senn 497s are fine for late-night telly.)

There are only two things I can say against the Sonys right now. Firstly, they have a slightly veiled sound compared to the Grados and, secondly, I happened to look into a mirror when I was wearing them last night... Bl**dy h*ll, they look huge. The sort of sight that gives headphone wearers a bad name. I'd be as well off strapping my SA1550s to my head. I'll have to stay away from windows in case I frighten the neighbours' kids!!! "Mommy I've just seen the Elephant Man"

Thanks for your help.

Paul

 

Good to hear you got that sorted Paul, it has been said that the foamies do result in quite a good increase in the clarity and cleanliness of the sound. The headphones will probably take about 200 hours to run in if my CD3000's were anything to go by.

Now, my theory as to why the hiss vanishes when you use the NAD and the alternative output on the Creek is because on the Creek you are likely using the output with the higher impedance, and on the NAD, it will have a much higher impedance anyway. Increasing the output impedance of the jack increases the effective electrical resistance of the headphones and therefore, eliminating the hiss. You'd actually find the same would happen if you used higher impedance and/or lower sensitivity headphones. I can tell you now, that if there is a hiss evident in the chain somewhere (unless its actually coming from the amp itself) then the Perreaux will make it EVEN MORE evident, since this amp is equally clean in its output as the Sony's and has a virtually 0-ohm output impedance (which I might add, is desirable for the best quality, but also more unforgiving of "problems" in the chain).

Now, you could try different interconnects, or maybe something needs grounding, but I have not actually had this problem myself, so I can only suggest trying those.

The Sony's are VERY amp dependent (they like an amp with 0-ohm output impedance, which neither your NAD or Creek will be able to provide). The "veiled" effect you speak of is IMO, definitely caused by an increased output impedance at the jack. When I listened to my CD3000 side by side with the foam modded CD1700 on my Perreaux, I found that while the CD1700 is slightly less clean and clear than the CD3000, that may have something to do with the fact the CD3000 are more than double the price!! The CD3000 are definitely the cleanest sounding headphones I've heard, and CD1700 were close second.

The Grado's on the other hand, in particular your model, are obviously open so will do the airy thing a little better, but are also said to be more forgiving of amps. Also, the 325's are known to be VERY bright, and increasing the output impedance of a jack will have the effect of taming treble. I'd be willing to bet if you got a good clean amp with 0-ohm output impedance in the chain, you *may* find that things might even sway in favour of the Sony's!! Thats not to put the Grado's down, but I personally think the Sony's are SERIOUSLY underrated for that price.

Like I said with the veiled effect, whenever I have used both the CD1700 and CD3000 with increased output impedance, they have both sounded veiled. Give it a 0 ohm impedance at the jack, and that veil will vanish, completely, I promise you that. The Creek simply CANNOT deliver this fundamental requirement for driving headphones well, and I dont mean to put it down, but I found it very suspicious when Creek would not tell me what the output impedance of the jacks were when I specifically asked them. They simply replied "use which one sounds best". When measured by someone on headfi, the output impedance was something like 80 ohm for one jack and 120 ohm for the other (IIRC). They should provide a 0-ohm jack, and no arguments. The 120 ohm jack can only possibly benefit headphones specifically designed for this impedance (like the Beyerdynamic DT931), and also very high impedance phones that suffer from excessive brightness (not that many of those AFAICT).

And by the way, if you think you look daft with the CD1700's on, then think of me - the CD3000's, no exagerration, are considerably BIGGER than the CD1700's

Anyway, enjoy your headphones, I promise when you sort out your problems, you will be amazed at what they can do.

 

Thanks for the detailed and helpful reply Paul. It's helping me understand how I can get a different sound.

So my journey's not over...

You gotta love Creek's answer to your question on the impedance of their jacks - "Use which one sounds best" - and, in fairness to you, you did just that - the Perreaux !!

Cheers.....Paul

 

Nice work on the foam mod paulraff; as I haven't got round to this myself do you have any tips for me? I'm assuming getting the ear pads off shouldn't be too tough but what about removing the foam? I want to get it off without damaging it in case I come to sell the headphones on at some point.

I've decided to go for the Perreaux, and will place the order just as soon as I can get the fax machine in New Zealand to accept it...

Martin

 

I need to get a new pair of headphones for my Iriver 120 mp3 player. I'm currently using a pair of Beyerdynamic 231's and quite frankly don't rate them. I find them uncomfortable to say the least to wear, and don't rate the sound that much either. Fwiw I'm encoding the mp3's in either Ogg 192 or alt-set-standard 192 which given the environment I work in is a good compromise between file size and sound quality. Would those sony's be ok on the end of the unamped 120 or would I be better off looking at the senns px range or something else? Those in ear/canal phones are out as they make my ears itch!

I've tried my Senns 565's and aside from the dodgy connection cable sounded ok if not particularly loud. I'm basically looking for a pair of headphones above the beyers but below the Senns 580 range etc, and as usual as cheap as possible.

Would just be using the Iriver sat at work and not exercising, plus they've seen me wearing the 565's so already had the "hail cyberman!" piss take.

Cheers.

 

The CD1700's can easily be driven from a portable device, me and my mate tried from his old Sony Discman, and it sounded pretty good considering. They would, of course, be overkill for the purpose, but hey, they'll still sound better than a cheaper pair of headphones even just using a portable.

 

Martin, I got the earpads off by putting my fingers inside, close to the edge and easing 'em free around the earpiece.

The foam pad is quite thin and attached to the driver by four dabs of glue. One of mine came away quite easily with no damage, but I got a small bit torn off the second one when I was removing it ('cos they're so thin and will tear easily). So if you want an absolutely perfect refitting be verrry careful. I reckon I won't ever be putting 'em back anyhow.

Getting the pads back on was quite simple. I used the tip of a nailfile to ease the pads under the edge of the earpiece. Worked well for me!!

Shame the Perreaux is hard to get hold of. I emailed the Dutch distributors but got no reply. So I ordered a Grado RA1 from Music Direct. It should arrive today!

At $315 it's a pretty good price, compared to $700 on Stoneaudio!! :yikes:

But since I don't have a distributor in Ireland I can order from the US. I'll post my impressions when I hear it.

Cheers.....Paul

 

Regarding the Perreaux, email www.totallywired.co.nz the dutch distributors will not reply to your email. IMO, it is worth the effort, because it is a superb little headphone amp for the cash.

 

How much does it cost? What about shipping?

P.

 

Mines costing me NZ$695, including shipping, which according to the FT currency convertor works out at £245 today, before import taxes of course. That's from TotallyWired that Paul mentioned; a company which so far have been excellent in responding to e-mail questions etc.

Thanks for the comments on the foam modding, I actually got round to doing this myself on Sunday. I did do a little damage to the foam bits unsticking them, but they can still be easily glued back in place. With the foam removed the sound is obviously clearer and brighter; whether they might actually be a little too bright I'll have to wait and see till I get my amp...

 

Nice one Martin. The Perreaux is a warm and rich sounding amp (but is neutral, as your charts that you get with the amp will prove), and I can guarantee it will not make them any brighter. Certainly, my cans are even brighter than the CD1700's and the Perreaux is recommended quite widely as a good amp for those.

Just remember that at first, it may sound disappointing - mine did, it was a bit cloudy and muddy for the first 24-48 hours but after that it started getting far better, and I think its sounding really nice now, probably approx 200+ hours on.

Also my mate thought his were a bit shrill when he was first running them in - that will calm down too, he is delighted with them now.

Edit: I didnt have to pay import tax for mine, so fingers crossed for ya matey! :MILD:

 

Lucky you. My RA1 arrived today and I got hit for VAT and Duty

Still, the full cost door-to-door was £260, which is not too bad. I'm interested to hear how it sounds. It's supposedly designed for low impedance 'phones like Grados (should suit the CD1700s as well). Being battery operated I expect a very quiet background.

The RA1 looks very cool, just a small block of mahogany with one input and one 'phone jack.

The one thing that annoys me about most other headphone amps are the external transformers and fiddly cables. I know the Perraux doesn't have an external t'former - and I know Paul will tell me I've only putting off the inevitable by not going straight for the SXH1. (I'm also trying to ignore the fact that I've spent £650 on headphone amps in the past year - should sell a couple I guess)

 

I hope the RA1 works out for you then! I got hit for tax the last time I imported so maybe I'm due some luck this time. Fingers crossed. What are the other amps you've got? I'd be interested how the different ones you have fair with the CD1700s.

Oh, and the price you got for the RA1 is excellent isn't it. Rather puts the £400 UK price to shame doesn't it. That's a huge mark-up even after the shipping and import taxes.

 

Well I bit the bullet and ordered a pair of sony's from askdirect Should get them tomorrow!