dev, pshaw... i only brought up the bmw art cars as an example of doing something artistic with an everyday object and said that i thought they were cool. i doubt even the art car treatment could help the new 5 series or roadster though (shudder). it was you who took umbridge at that - god knows why, still as they say there's no smoke without fire ;) perhaps you could educate me more by telling me what Bayerische means? cheers julian