Hybrid tube/ss amps?

As SCIDB says, its all about power supplies and output transformers. As long as these are high enough quality (rules out cheap valve amps IMO), then it'll rock like a good un.

As for valve amps not having enough power, Would a pair of these be sufficient for you? (a bit pricey though, I must admit)

 

Well I did say it was in my experience!

I have heard a fair number of valve amps, but admittedly not a huge amount.

The ones I have heard, I'm sorry but I can hear the distortion. It's very nice for music that doesn't need to be LOUD, but for something like Limp Bizkit, Everclear, Nickelback etc (I veer towards alternative rock) they don't do it for me. They start to sound loud before they are. I always thought this is why people talk of 'valve watts' as something different

I may be hyper sensitive to the distortion though as I spend a lot of time in studios, where low distortion is a bigger concern than sounding 'nice'. (No I'm not trying to say I can hear better or anything jus that I'm not used to much distortion)

Sorry if I offended anyone...

If anyone is near me (Gravesend, Kent) they are more than welcome to take a listen to my system and see what they think of the combination.

 

Tenson, your website doesn't seem to be available

 

Odd... it worked for me just now. Try again?

We start recording of the new album in a week

 

Copland also used to make Valve hybrid amps CSA-28 I think was the last model number,well worth a look if you can track one down second hand,even better is the CTA 402,lovely sound,excels in the Midrange,vocals,and goes beautifully with the Cal DACs,low maintenace,built like a tank,beautiful amp.


The AA puccini doesn't compare,I found it:SLEEP:in comparison.

 

Its interesting that the criticism comes from the distorting sound of valves.

This is often thought of as their strong point...

IE Valves (when distorting) are thought to do so in a more musical manner than a distorting solid state sound. Its one reason why valves are used by audiophiles and guitarists.

As to valves/rock - Id disagree also. I think valves dont rock when you ask too much of them - i.e. powering difficult speakers with a not very powerful amp. True of solid state aswell, but high watts are cheaper with SS, hence why this mis-match demo happens so often IMHO... (hope that makes sense).

Unless you're saying that slight obfiscation of detail and added warmth-colouration are distortion? Its a word that means different things to different people IMO

Theres no reason why a well setup valve system cant do rock, classical, jazz or anything else IMO.

 

I'm thinking THD types of distortion.

Its interesting that you say about obscuring of details.. because that was kinda the thing that annoyed me. I could hear that there was a sound going on, but because it was too distorted I could not hear 'what it was doing' if that makes any sense.

Yes they do indeed distort more musically, but a solid-state amp that doesn't distort is even better in my view

If I could afford it, I'd have both.. all valve for jazz-ish stuff and active for the rest and studio use.

 

Chris,

I am interested in this observation. I can say that with my valve amp, the reverse is true. It is loads more detailed than my previous solid state amp with an exceptionally detailed midrange and is not really warm sounding either. Some of the most detailed system I have heard use valve amplification.

Tenson, but solid state amps do distort and the distortions thay produce are quite horrible too. All that yucky IMD and crossover distortion that hardens the upper midrange and gives treble a forward etched clean sound. If thats what passes for more detail, then you are welcome to it.

 

Aha! It has mysteriously reappeared

Crossover distortion? What's that?

:lol:

 

Robbo.. what is your system? What do you like to listen too?

I have found that a valve pre-amp removes nearly all that 'etched sound'

You are welcome to the 'pipe and slippers world' of an all valve system

 

Well TB,

Of course, for owners of class A solid state amps such as yourself thats not an issue. But proper class A designs are unfortunately rather thin on the ground

 

Perhaps thats why I like my system so much, the amps are class A Brystons?

I would say in that case, that valve pre with class A solid state powers is, IMO better then an all valve system.

 

Simaudio Eclipse CDP > Audio Research CA50 > Proac Response 1SC

Music : Indie rock/pop, dub, Psy trance, ambient trance, Dance, 70s rock amongst others.

That etched sound is distortion. Once you have lived without it for a while, believe me, you dont want to go back. Thats not to say I will never own a solid state amp again (for example I like class T amps), it just means that I'll be very careful about selecting one which mimimises this problem.

 

Brystons? hmmm, very solid state

Not Class A either IIRC.

 

With a transistor pre-amp yes they are, but have you heard them with a good valve pre-amp?

They are 'mainly class A' up too 100watts or so IIRC.

Surprisingly, I do like the valve sound for trance!

Anyway, lets stop hijacking the tread...

 

reason I said that was I tend to favour output stages as being considerably responsible for the character of an amp.
Personally for that reason, I would go for valve power and SS pre if you were to mix. ( i also have not been enamoured with most valve pres I have heard, too)
However, I think mixing myself is a crude attempt to get the best of both worlds, and a valve pre will not amerliorate a transistor power IMO.YMMV.

Vice versa.

Each to there own opinions, one hopes everyone is mature enough to disagree openly, that is what its all about, Tenson, no offence taken, keep on dishing, but hopefully none given either, that really was a sweeping generalisation and utter tosh lyons.


Everything that is not fact is an opinion, drawn from prejudice, experience, and myth. They are open to disagreement, as others find otherwise. Me no exception. I only have my opinions based on experience and bias.

Valves make rock music. guitar amps et al.

As to distortion, the type of distortion valves cause are low 2nd and 3rd harmonic, largely adding pleasantness, not harshness to the sound.

In any case, valve amps distortion is still held to be below 0.1 % audible, except for certain types of amps.

2nd harmonic is not really audible until it reaches 5% so you must be either imagining it or hearing something else, like using it way too loud, as musos can be prone to do, blowing speakers and amps to smithereens.

Obviously this is not what 20-50 watt amps are meant for.

Try a manley 500 watter amp and see if you find that distorts.or a big CJ, ...

...or that nice audio research, arggh...they look like 6550s, yank version of kt88s, must sound like a bad tranny amp
mind you , isn't that how ARCs are reputed to sound?

 

Not an issue for PWM switching amps either . No IMD or crossover distortion - actually, very little distortion at all :MILD:

Michael.

 

Have you tried it? From what I have read its generally accepted that the other way around works better to get the best of both worlds.

No, it was what I experienced, not a generalisation and therefore also not utter bollox.

That's taking it out of context a bit, a guitar amp is supposed to distort!

Well if it wasn't harmonic distortion it was something! I really don't think I was driving the amp too hard. The main experience I am thinking of was with a Cayin A-88T.

SanJ, the general opinion here seems to be that you should go all valve or all transistor... but I really feel this is misguiding you so do have a listen for yourself.

 

I've tried a valve pre into solid state power (EAR 834 into ATC Active 10s) and it sounded fine, a solid state pre into solid state power (ATC CA2 into ATC Active 10s) and it sounded fine, and, currently, a solid state pre into valve power (ATC CA2 into Leak Stereo 20) and it sounds fine (although I have too much gain, a passive pre would be a better bet), and am also currently trying a class T integrated, which sounds fine too, and runs cool, a big plus with summer on the way.

Hard to generalise, in other words. There are differences between the various presentations, but I'm not sure one of them is definitively better than the others. I certainly don't hear a lot of distortion with the valve setup in comparison with anything else. The valve amp is a touch fruitier than the class T amp, this can either be very pleasant or too much of a good thing, depending on mood. I could live with any of them, but I like having choices, so both passive pre/valve power and class T integrated is what I'll end up with.

The main thing is to get something that can drive the chosen speakers properly at the desired SPLs. The rest is all a matter of taste.

-- Ian

 

Are class T the pure digital amps?