krell amps what price?

[alexs2]

I wish power supply wattage could make a difference, other than giving the necessary rated watts...



If is that so why pay mad cash for something that doesn't even sound good?

As with so many of your other posts,you seem to wilfully miss the point being made....as you will no doubt already know,the power supply is one of the most fundamental prts of any amplifier,and the power supply reserves incorporated into the older Krells not only allowed them to achieve the "rated watts" but considerably more than that,with the 100W rated KSA100 usually managing over 150W into an 8ohm load.
More important than that though,as I am sure you will again know,is the ability to continue to deliver power into more difficult loads,especially when many modern loudspeakers are taken into account,and once again the Krells and older Levinsons were able to deliver increasing power with diminishing loads,and the KSA100 would happily deliver over 800W into a 1ohm load.
This was particularly welcome when the Apogee Scintilla was developed,as the Krell was one of the few amps capable of working with it.

Whilst you are of course entitled to your own opinions regarding sound quality,you would find yourself fairly isolated in describing the sound quality of Krell amps,as "not even sounding good"...the only exception to this is the KST100.

You are of course also free to elicit responses in your usual fashion.

 

[Legzr1]

I am quite mad without foundation without answer please ignore

Hohoho - BD selective editing once more.

Above is Legzs' attempt at editing quotes and taking everything out of context without answering anything.
Agreed,I have a way to go until I can be called BD2 but there's always hope

 

[Curt]

Legzr,

Wholy unfair sir , I was merely pointing out the M/F ability to illuminate itself as an advantage over the Krell
The Ksa100 and Kav400il are 2 completely different kettles of fish, and sound apart as far away from each other as salt and pepper are.
Not withstanding the fact the 400 is an interegrated
As has been mentioned synergy is a key issue with Krell, find it and it works, though be prepared for a long process of emilination.

Thats the 400xi mate BTW

Curt

 

[BerylliumDust]

As with so many of your other posts,you seem to wilfully miss the point being made....as you will no doubt already know,the power supply is one of the most fundamental prts of any amplifier,and the power supply reserves incorporated into the older Krells not only allowed them to achieve the "rated watts" but considerably more than that,with the 100W rated KSA100 usually managing over 150W into an 8ohm load.
More important than that though,as I am sure you will again know,is the ability to continue to deliver power into more difficult loads,especially when many modern loudspeakers are taken into account,and once again the Krells and older Levinsons were able to deliver increasing power with diminishing loads,and the KSA100 would happily deliver over 800W into a 1ohm load.
This was particularly welcome when the Apogee Scintilla was developed,as the Krell was one of the few amps capable of working with it.

I always try not to miss the point being made, unless there is no point...

I agree that power should double when the impedance halves because that's the only way of having a constant voltage source... but you can have it with an amp rated at 200W/8ohm as well as with an amp rated at 50W/8ohm, even with 1 ohm loads. You will only be dependent of speaker`s sensitivity.

No way you will ever need 800W for normal domestic applications... unless you need a central heater...

Whilst you are of course entitled to your own opinions regarding sound quality,you would find yourself fairly isolated in describing the sound quality of Krell amps,as "not even sounding good"...the only exception to this is the KST100.

You are of course also free to elicit responses in your usual fashion.

My opinions regarding sound quality are also price conscious... the price doesn't even sound good.

 

[greg]

My opinions regarding sound quality are also price conscious... the price doesn't even sound good.

Does this opinion span the Krell range or just the pre/pwr combo in question?

 

[greg]

I always try not to miss the point being made, unless there is no point...

I thought the point regards the Apogees was clear and obvious. If one is using Scintillas then you need lots of power and an amp that can drive a 1 Ohm load - there were (and probably still are) limited options. Not having much experience with Rotel pwr amps, how would their natural equivalent fair in your opinion?

 

[alexs2]

(I always try to miss the point being made, )

I agree that power should double when the impedance halves because that's the only way of having a constant voltage source... but you can have it with an amp rated at 200W/8ohm as well as with an amp rated at 50W/8ohm, even with 1 ohm loads. You will only be dependent of speaker`s sensitivity.

No way you will ever need 800W for normal domestic applications... unless you need a central heater...

This,of course,is utter nonsense,as most amps rated at 200W into 8 ohms are simply incapable of delivering even 50W into a 1 ohm load,and I'm sure you should be well aware of that.

As to requiring 800W for normal domestic applications,of course,in most cases it will be unneccessary,unless the combination of an insensitive speaker and a short,but very loud transient is factored in,to take your usual extreme example.

As to price/quality comparisons.....one assumes you may be taking the Rotel 1075/1080 as logical competitors,and whilst cheaper,it seems tat few would place them in the same performance league as even an older Krell.....you do of course have comparitive experience of all of these models,to base your arguments on,no doubt.

I note also that your comments about the similarity of Krells and Rotels seem somewhat lacking in anything to back them up with....your comments on that would be "interesting".

 

[wadia-miester]

As to requiring 800W for normal domestic applications a short,but very loud transient is factored in,to take your usual extreme example.

Hey,

somebody call Mr Thwack ?,
Besides all this talk of watts is mere teasing lads, thout need grunt chaps, lots of instantanious heavy current delivery all across the board, at near warp speed that should suffice

 

[BerylliumDust]

This,of course,is utter nonsense,as most amps rated at 200W into 8 ohms are simply incapable of delivering even 50W into a 1 ohm load,and I'm sure you should be well aware of that.

It was you who completly missed the point...

You can have an amp with 200W @ 8 ohm, 400W @ 4 ohm, and 800W @ 1 ohm;

or,

an amp with 50W @ 8 ohm, 100W @ 4 ohm, and 200W @ 1 ohm.

That doesn't tell you anything about the difference in sound quality of the amps... in fact, chances are that the more powerful amp will sound worse... most definitely worse... besides, you really don't need that kind of power.

Name three speakers with 1 ohm impedance at some given frequency or with equal or less than 83dB sensitivity.

I note also that your comments about the similarity of Krells and Rotels seem somewhat lacking in anything to back them up with....your comments on that would be "interesting".

Just look inside, or get the circuit diagrams...

 

[julian2002]

bd,
sorry but you're being inconsistent there you say that the power output tells you nothing about the quality (which i agree with totally) and then you go on to say that the the chances are that the more powerful amp will sound worse, MOST DEFINATELY worse.

please apply a bit more internal logic before spouting bollocks in future. 3 demerits and a slapped arse for you me boyo.
cheers


julian

 

[Ya-Boo]

Sorry WM ....IMHO your are talking utter biased bollocks,
wall paper stripper ???? are you mad ?
I think demoing cables and listening to Ironmaiden for to long is affecting your jugement dude
the KSA range of amps are Iconic bits of kit that still cut the mustard today,

why do you think thet are still so sought after up to 2 decades after production ended .......cos they kick butt......simple

a 10 yr old NON working KSA250 just sold on flea bay @ £900 wondered why this may be ?

In 20 yrs time the KSA's will still comand respect good money & and Be sought after
The Belcantos of this world will be worth jack shit.

telya what I,ll take BOTH the KSA50 & 100 off your hands save you tripping over them.
I,ll pay fair money too......as long as your not a certain Jock out to make a quick buck

 

[penance]

is that bore still harping on?

bloody glad i dont bother coming here much now

 

[greg]

You can have an amp with 200W @ 8 ohm, 400W @ 4 ohm, and 800W @ 1 ohm; or an amp with 50W @ 8 ohm, 100W @ 4 ohm, and 200W @ 1 ohm.

Yes I think we got that point but it doesnt really tell us anything.

That doesn't tell you anything about the difference in sound quality of the amps... in fact, chances are that the more powerful amp will sound worse... most definitely worse... besides, you really don't need that kind of power.

You describe opinion like it is fact; you are an empiricist talking like a scientist. In truth that's too kind because an empiricist describes his/her actual experiences, you describe your expectations.

One minute its all null testing and measurement, the next thing its overstated subjectivism of the worst kind.

Name three speakers with 1 ohm impedance at some given frequency or with equal or less than 83dB sensitivity.

The scintillas are considered amongst the best speaker systems of all time AFAIK - one example is enough.

Just look inside, or get the circuit diagrams...

Personally I use my ears to judge, but I am interested to know more about how Rotel offers Krell performance, I'm not poo-pooing your stated opinion on that, I'm just keen to know more specific examples/comparisons at a greater level than the recommendation of looking at circuit diagrams.

 

[Ya-Boo]

You may find Rotel prices much more attractive... same basic circuit and without any of the Krell's nastyties.

I,m just wondering what Rotel amp you have heard can even compare with any KSA Krell...... sorry night n day to my ear's that quote of yours gotta be a wind up

 

[wadia-miester]

Sorry Kev, your talking horse plops, they are totally over rated and well compared to a nap 250 in its day (the competition) may well have done something.
Did we touch a nevre or are you still harbouring carnal thoughts for these heavyweight room heaters?
Ok you come down with £2750 cash (I still have the box for the 100 and the manual) and you can take em away, but no jibbing over the cost of the fuel

 

[wadia-miester]

You got mates now Kev? I'm impressed chrikey you've been busy
Maybe its a synergry thing?, the scintilla's had no problem been driven with 200.4 at all?
Nah I've heard many a ksa 300 and the later versions, although my ears were never intact long enough enough to form an opinion other than best use for audio as an aural jack hammer.
The later ones are much better, although there ability to remove music is an inbuilt feature.
Now if the B/c is so bad why are you still using it?, though I will say a stock evo4 is a some what off the pace that I'm used too.
Oh and happy new year, now what about a nap 250

 

[Ya-Boo]

ya right, no mates in my job
A Sevenoaks car dealer of { Italian exotica} I,ve known a while, I think you met him at JJ's some quite a while back.....at least his discription of you sounded bout right......Large in every sense of the word

A got the Evo 4 to see what you keep banging on about nothing more
and yes joking aside It is in some areas better performing than the Krell
but even the little krell has a REAL soundstage the B/C can only dream about

 

[Ya-Boo]

Now if the B/c is so bad why are you still using it?, I've heard many a ksa 300 and the later versions, although my ears were never intact long enough enough to form an opinion other than best use for audio as an aural jack hammer.
The later ones are much better, although there ability to remove music is an inbuilt feature

.Now if the B/c is so bad why are you still using it?,

I,ve never said the B/C is bad.........just over priced IMHO

seriously
KSA 300 aside, I,ve only heard that one in somebody elses room so not really
fair to comment
I,ve heard the 80s 100 & 250 quite a bit over the yrs and owned 2 50s on and off for over a decade......they all at some stage never fail to impress

the only common thing I,d pick up on is imagery can be a little wanting at times........for the life of me where you get the wall paper stripping thing from
I just dont know, even with the Teac P30/DAC1 M/A combi I could not hand on heart say that the krell sounded hard in any way
In that resect also the Belcanto has never become fatiuging to listen too
just an amp that you can listen to for hours.
maybe your right on the system matching thing, I,ve never heard a krell/wadia combi

 

[alexs2]

The number of contradictions in certain of the arguments here are amazing.

In the end though,the thread was one member asking what sort of prices he should expect to pay for a Krell pre and power amp,irrespective of any subjective matters.

On what one bases a supposition that a more powerful amplifier will "sound worse",I can't imagine,other than it being exactly as some others here have suggested,i.e.overstated subjectivism or worse.

Other than the presence of transformer(s) resistors,capacitors and transistors,there isn't a huge deal in common between a straightforward Class A/b biassed Rotel,and a Class A Krell.
There are certainly huge differences in sound quality,which I'd defy you not to notice,even with someone's penchant for null testing.

Why not get the thread back to what the original intent was,rather than trolling as usual.

 

[BerylliumDust]

bd,
sorry but you're being inconsistent there you say that the power output tells you nothing about the quality (which i agree with totally) and then you go on to say that the the chances are that the more powerful amp will sound worse, MOST DEFINATELY worse.

julian

Julian,

You may have exactly the same topology between two different amps yet they can sound considerably different... It's how you implement it that makes the difference between them.

For instance, when you have a more powerful amplifier you necessarilly need higher gain. Any amplifying device (be it bipolar, mosfet or tube) introduces distortion. Distortion rises for each single gain stage that is added in the circuit... you simply cannot help it.